K2F points removal to get at manual advance/retard

[mikeb]

Hello
I’m quite a noob at all this old school stuff, so may be making heavy work of the obvious… but…
On my 61 super rocket with a K2F mag with manual advance/retard (see first pic), the advance/retard lever is stuck.
Its not the cable jammed up so first thing gets the points off right? They are steel points so as far as I can tell I’m to remove the centre hex bolt and wiggle it off its taper (second pic).
But with the centre bolt removed I can’t move it on the taper. At all.
I can remove the end housing (by removing the three slotted screws) and wriggle it around but still can’t get the points/back plate to move.

Suggestions please… there must be something obvious I’m not doing, and I'm keen not to wreck it


Cheers

Mike

[terryg]

Is the cable stuck or the cam ring?
The cable acts on the cam ring, not the points assy.
Take out the cam ring, if you can, and it will release the cable by disengaging the mushroom end adaptor.
It's possible you may have to remove the points if the cam ring is stuck firm.

Others will have favourite methods of removing the points assy, I'm sure.

[beezermacc]

The points can be a bit tricky to remove if they're stuck on the taper but there is nothing else holding them in other than the centre screw. I normally undo the centre screw, withdraw it about 3/4 of its length then move it from side to side, pressing quite hard, sideways, to (hopefully) release it from the taper. If the points are particularly stubborn you can remove the screw all the way and use a thin electrical screwdriver down the centre hole which will give you a bit more side to side leverage.

[tombeau]

The cam ring can be removed without removing the points, as said previously. My A10 has a different end cover, but have you checked that the manual advance retard works with the cover off it? On mine I've had problems with it catching the edge of the cover.

[mikeb]

thanks for the help guys.

Terry and tombeau - i take it the cam ring is the inner ring surrounding the points assemble, and coloured a little more brown-ish in my second photo. if so, its stuck like glue - won't move at all. I take it from your posts it should freely slide out? i guess this is close to where my problem is. I thought I'd take the points out to get access to the end housing and take a closer look.

Beezermacc - if I do the screwdriver trick am I likely to damage anything? (I'm quite good at damaging things)

cheers


Mike

[mikeb]

Progress!
with the help of a flathead nail with one flat side ground off, I managed to pull the cam ring out. I think that the manual A/R end adapter may have somehow jammed in the cam ring grove and both were frozen.

I've reinserted the end adapter and the cam ring now moves freely with the cable. A squared nail between the point to hold them open helped me to carefully move the ring to position it on the adapter. There's now about 1.5mm gap between the outer of the cam ring and the end of the housing, so I'm hoping the end cover will take up enough of this to prevent the ring moving out and maybe re-jamming.

In the process of all of this I've messed up my points gap (points still not removed) and pulled the A/R cable nipple out at the handlebars end, so that's a job for tomorrow. But one more step closer to road-ready.

I really appreciate the posts above that helped me understand what I was looking at - what a great forum. attached below a pic of the dissembled mechanism so the next person with this problem has a better idea of what lies within.

Cheers

Mike

[Triton Thrasher]

The points timing should't be messed up, if the drive pinion hasn't been disturbed.

[a10 gf]

I really appreciate the posts above that helped me understand what I was looking at

Always nice to read the forum being useful.

Much good magneto stuff on the forum, see http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=1352.0 about how the search behaves. & my post here >  http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=1375.0 got info you may find interesting, for example about even L\R timing, an important consideration for getting a well running engine.

[terryg]

Mike - pleased you're making progress. Half the A10 fun for me is in learning new stuff, even when it's new 'old' stuff.

[jachenbach]

I haven't had one of these apart yet, so I'm wondering if it could be removed as done on unit construction engines. That is, loosen the bolt, clamp on a vise grip on the bolt head, and tap the vise grip with a hammer? Don't see that it could cause any damage, and it's always worked very well for me on all my unit construction brits (Triumph, Norton, and BSA).

[chaterlea25]

Hi All,

so I'm wondering if it could be removed as done on unit construction engines. That is, loosen the bolt, clamp on a vise grip on the bolt head, and tap the vise grip with a hammer? Don't see that it could cause any damage, and it's always worked very well for me on all my unit construction brits (Triumph, Norton, and BSA).

Dont attempt to do that !!!
The little bolt on the magneto points centre screws into a small brass segment that surrounded by insulating material
On the steel points backplate theres provision for reversing the points for opposite rotation
so theres a tag sitting there unused
It might be tempting to grab onto this with a point nosed grips and give it a wiggle??
The nail head used to remove the cam ring could be used as a lever between the points plate and mag body to gain a little leverage on the points plate ??

HTH
John

[jachenbach]

Good to know, and thanks for the warning!