Author Topic: Ariel type brake shoes  (Read 3180 times)

Offline roadrocket

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Ariel type brake shoes
« on: 16.06. 2013 08:36 »
Hello!

I will try to get some braking performance enhancement by grinding the brake liners in situ - a trick from the "Building Budget Brits" book. If this fails to make the Rocket stop better, I have thought to get the exchange brake shoes from Draganfly. Have any of you had any experience with these?

Otto in Denmark
Otto in Denmark

Offline WozzA

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Re: Ariel type brake shoes
« Reply #1 on: 16.06. 2013 09:29 »
like these?  
'51 Golden Flash Plunger
'57 Golden Flash Swingarm

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Online Triton Thrasher

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Re: Ariel type brake shoes
« Reply #2 on: 16.06. 2013 11:22 »
Non-floating single leading shoe brakes work very badly if the trailing shoe meets the drum before the leading shoe. 

Offline orabanda

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Re: Ariel type brake shoes
« Reply #3 on: 16.06. 2013 15:41 »
I found that the brake backing plate for the Ariel hub, can have too much clearance on the axle. This is obvious when the axle is tightened, but with the torque arm  removed. Consequently, the shoes will not contact square to the brake drum, if the plate can tilt on the axle.

The plate on my bike had 0.020" clearance (another plate had 0.008", and another had 0.005"). I fitted a bronze bush to the backing plate, with 0.001" - 0.002" clearance on the axle. After doing this, when the torque arm was bolted on to the hub, there was a clearance between it and the mounting lug on the fork leg.  I made a thin packing piece to fit, so that when the torque arm / mudguard bolts were fitted, there was no side load on the backing plate; the backing plate fitted beautifully into the hub, and the face of the shoes therefore would be parallel to the drum surface.

Note I have also replaced the felt seal with a lip seal.

Also, With all A and B models, it is worth checking that the fork staunchions are engaged to the same depth below the top of the upper triple tree. Often one is lower than the other (less engagement in the taper), and the lower one can be linished until they both install (tighten up) to the same depth; mine are set 1 - 2 mm below the top. This ensures that the hole for the axle is perfectly aligned in each slider.


Find an automotive or truck brake repair specialist, who can machine the brake drum with the wheel assembled. Sometimes they will require you to rmove the wheel bearings. The fellow I use charges $20.

The front wheel for my '56 RR took 0.012" to clean up.

Get them to also bond and rivet (the rivets are very important; we only get one life!) over size linings to your shoes; the linings will be approx 1/8" over the drum size (7"). Same shop that does the drum machining charges $40 for this, so not too expensive!

Assemble OS shoes onto backing plate, but replace the shoe springs with turnbuckles; I make my own (refer to pics below). Put 0.010" - 0.015" shim packing between each shoe and the actuating cam. This will ensure there is just enough clearance after machining  (once removed), for the wheel to rotate freely and safely.

Do up the turnbuckles tight; this locks the shoes square against the cam, and the fixed pivot. The fixed pivot should be adjusted out most of the way, so plenty of adjustment remains.

Make a dummy mandrell same size as axle, and some sort of custom nut, and install (do up tight) the backing plate. When re-using the mandrell, set up in 4 jaw chuck, to no more than 0.001" run-out.

Accurately measure the drum (mine was 7.012" ID after machining), and machine shoes to the same size (tungsten carbide or ceramic tips are best).

File significant bevel (lead-in) on each shoe - at least 10mm long - to prevent leading shoe from grabbing. Wear a mask during all machining and shaping, even though the post- asbestos materials are "supposed" to be harmless.

Remove shims and re-assemble shoes to backing plate, and assemble wheel. Hold brake on, whilst doing up axle and torque arm nut. You will be impressed at the bite even at this stage, because the linings have been arced to the drum, and will be making close to maximum contact.

Remove the wheel several times after short rides, and sand - paper high spots lightly to hasten the bed-in.

Your brake has just got better (but don't tailgate anyone!).

Richard


Offline Stephen Foster

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Re: Ariel type brake shoes
« Reply #4 on: 16.06. 2013 16:00 »
"Orabanda" , You are obviously a highly gifted engineer .
I assume the modifications have made a large improvement in braking ?

Steve ..
I own a 1955/56 B.S.A Swinging Arm "Golden Flash" , had it since 1976 .

Offline orabanda

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Re: Ariel type brake shoes
« Reply #5 on: 16.06. 2013 16:15 »
Steve,
More stubborn than gifted!

Just applying basic principles.

Yes, it's the best the brake has been (not quite as good as the 8" off-set brakes when set up the same way).

Richard

Offline Stephen Foster

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Re: Ariel type brake shoes
« Reply #6 on: 16.06. 2013 16:46 »
Richard ,
  Judging by the photos of Your handiwork I am deeply impressed by the quality .

I am going to experiment with My 55/56 Ariel wheel brakes .
"Muskrat" kindly gave Me a set of green lined brake shoes ( thanks again Jim) , I am going to fit these to the fron wheel .

I have an engineer friend Who I will show Your pictures & write up to with a view to inviting Him to do similar work on Mine .
The Ariel brakes are spongy & none too sharp as standard despite having had the hubs skimmed , new oversize shoes , etc .

Thanks again for sharing the method .
Steve ..
I own a 1955/56 B.S.A Swinging Arm "Golden Flash" , had it since 1976 .

Offline RichardL

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Re: Ariel type brake shoes
« Reply #7 on: 16.06. 2013 18:23 »
Richard,

Thanks for the excellent instructional post. Could you please send your lathe my way? No? OK, I understand.

One question, though. Since the mandrell is, I assume, the same OD as the axle, why does it need to be a four-jaw chuck? Is there some common machinist knowledge that says that an adjusted four-jaw runs more true than a three-jaw? (Not that I own a lathe, but I'm curious.)

Richard L.

Offline RichardL

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Re: Ariel type brake shoes
« Reply #8 on: 16.06. 2013 18:46 »
Richard,

OK, another question: I see that Wozza's shoes use eight rivets per lining while your's use four. Are your's held by a combination of rivets and adhesives, or are they both held by that combination?

Thanks.

Richard L.

Offline muskrat

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Re: Ariel type brake shoes
« Reply #9 on: 16.06. 2013 21:00 »
 Good one Richard O, now you've given the secret to setting them up proper the price of those hubs just went up. Everyone will want them.
Very similar to how I do mine, no seal for me.
 Richard L, a 3 jaw is quick and when new is close if you remove a machined piece and replace it back in later. For true accuracy a 4 jaw is best.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS racer now a A10CR, '78 XT500, '83 CB1100F, 88 HD FXST, 2000 CBR929RR ex Honda Australia Superbike .
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Offline trevinoz

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Re: Ariel type brake shoes
« Reply #10 on: 16.06. 2013 22:31 »
More to the point, Richard, the 3 jaw chuck jaws all move together from any keyhole via a scroll whereas the 4 jaw has individual keyholes and the jaws can be moved independently from each other.

Trev.

Offline WozzA

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Re: Ariel type brake shoes
« Reply #11 on: 16.06. 2013 22:52 »
When I sent my wheels away to be re spoked & new rims to Lightfoot engineering Phil also
machined the outer hubs, fitted new bearings & seals.
I was lucky enough to pick up a set of shoes & new linings on eBay for $20..   *yeah*
Manosound....  the 3 sets of shoes I own all have 8 rivets..
Orabanda....   GREAT insight on how to set it up correctly....   *wink2*
'51 Golden Flash Plunger
'57 Golden Flash Swingarm

Melbourne
The biggest lie I tell myself is
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Offline orabanda

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Re: Ariel type brake shoes
« Reply #12 on: 16.06. 2013 23:52 »
Manosound,
As Muskrat and Trev have pointed out, a 4 jaw chuck allows the work piece to to be set up the most accurately, when a previously machined work piece (in this case the mandrell) is put back into the chuck. I have a collection of mandrells to suit various BSA, Ariel, Yamaha, Suzuki, etc, which are re-used (am a sucker for tired old bikes!). The 4 jaw will allow set-up to 0.000" run-out.

The brake guru only uses 4 rivets when he glues on the new lining; I agree; this is enough to retain the lining.

Richard

Offline RichardL

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Re: Ariel type brake shoes
« Reply #13 on: 17.06. 2013 00:33 »
Thanks all. I understood how the chucks worked versus one another, but I've always thought that the purpose of the four-jaw was to hold pieces that are not round. Never thought about the fine-tuning aspect, but it makes perfect sense now.

Richard L.

Offline kiwipom

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Re: Ariel type brake shoes
« Reply #14 on: 17.06. 2013 03:12 »
hi guys, lovely work Richard O, heres one that iv`e has hanging around for some time,cheers
A10.G.Flash(cafe racer)Honda 250 vtr. Yamaha Virago XV920.

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