Fitting an external oil filter.

[Lindsay S]

Least of my problems now! Just done a test ride on my newly built engine only to find glitter in the sump (just as well I had a filter, loads in there!). I have just started to strip it down as I write this.
 This engine has been a pain from the start and it doesn’t look like it has finished with me yet! A real shame because it ran beautifully but just seemed too noisy, particularly on the drive-side, when I got back from a 30 mile spin ‘round the block’. Should have an answer by tomorrow, hope I haven’t done something stupid!

[Triton Thrasher]

Has it sat long enough to get corrosion in the drive side main?

That could cause noise and glitter.

[Lindsay S]

A possibility. It looked OK, no pitting on the rollers or race and the local precision engineer (a very knowledgeable guy with BSA engines) pronounced it good but the stuff I am getting in the sump is both ferrous and non-ferrous.I don’t recall having this sort of issue with an engine I have rebuilt before, and I have done quit a few bike and car engines over the years. Something is not right, I’m sure.

[limeyrob]

What colour is the glitter?  Is it magnetic?
My bet is a crank shim. since you have a filter there's a good chance you can save the big ends and TS bush.
My engine has some glitter (bronze) but it looks like the TS bush may have run in a bit, after the first run the oil has been clean, it too has a return filter.

[berger]

don't strip it yet---- too late by the sounds of things i had loads of glitter in mine after a rebuild but it stopped glittering. things have to bed in on these old girls,  i suppose it depends on what's been done but you don't want a worty engine built by rivet man. baahh humbug to all i don't do chrimbo , never had a day off or new year. i am making up for it in my later years but the black&tans flowing are nothing to do with this chrimbo thing. thankyou for listening  have a nice day.

[Lindsay S]

Too late but just as well! Nothing obvious yet but a finger full of fine swarf in the bottom of the timing chest. Crank turns smoothly with just perceptible end float and camshaft too turns smooth and free. This thread seems to have changed somewhat! Head and barrel off tomorrow and might even get the cases split.

[Lindsay S]

Nothing obvious found yet but that metallic ferrous and non-ferrous paste is coming from somewhere and I want to know where!

[Worty]

I understand why you want to find out what's going on, but MAYBE it's a little premature.  If you look at Berg's pictures of my engine after a botched rebuild, and the fact there was nothing on the sump plate, it could be simply a bit of 'running in'??

Not only was there colossal end float and 'up and down' movement of the crank, a ball bearing blocking one of the oilways, a crank seal on the wrong way round, valves a bit flattened on the ends, loads of blowback on the pistons (also broken piston ring), plus 4 failed ATDs which shoved grit around the engine, a tooth broken from the timing gear and a shredded timing side bearing - the bike still ran   Looks like the crank end was welded back on as it runs a tad out of true.

Bergs was horrified with what he saw, but still put it back together and runs superbly.  A little mixed glitter on the plate and a fair portion of gasket, but nothing dramatic.

I'm not much into Christmas either, but have a good day with your nearests and dearests.

[chaterlea25]

Happy Christmas Lindsay S,
Bugger,
It looks as though the cam and followers are not too happy
Were they renewed in the overhaul?
It looks as though they are from a well worn engine
The cam and followers depend on the PRV opening to feed the oil trough. On building a new engine I coat them with moly paste and fill the trough with oil.
Cam and follower wear makes shiney magnetic glitter
Piston rings and bore make grey magnetic paste
Piston alloy is non magnetic

John

[Lindsay S]

Cam is brand new 356 from SRM an I used the slippery stuff that they sent with it plus I filled the trough. The cam followers were re-faced to remove the wear ridge as there was plenty of hard stuff left on them and I don’t trust the new rubbish they sell now. They look worse in the picture but they look OK in the flesh.
It looks like source of the tiny silvery magnetic pieces may have come from the drive side main. I removed the inner race and flushed it onto a clean piece of white kitchen towel and found a few particles. On dismantling the bearing, I found some areas where the surface in corner was breaking up, similarly on the outer race; I should have replaced it and the seal on the build; lesson learned! Every thing else looks perfect; as it should. I guess I won’t get the bits I need till after the seasonal madness!

[Worty]

I hope that's all it is mate - Merry Christmas!

[BagONails]

Bugga, oh what a shame.

I wonder if the slight marks on the followers are the result of the bearing race material circulating in the oil? Is the timing side bush unmarked?

Filters are a good idea but they are not perfect and particles smaller than say 20 micron (depending on the filter specs) will still get through.
Hopefully you have caught it in time, well done for stopping and stripping it right down straight away   

Another good idea is a magnetic sump plug and a magnet in the bottom of the oil tank I reckon.

Whatever you find now, cleaning and flushing everything in the oil circuit is a must as I'm sure you would be aware Lindsay.

Getting back to the original post concerning placement of your filter, I've attached a picture of the W800 filter which as Worty said is in a similar location although a bit more tucked in between the frame tubes. As you can see Kawasaki saw the need for a very nicely executed stainless steel cap, partly to look more shiny (at least it does when its clean!) than a bare filter but mainly to protect it from flying stones etc.
maybe something you could do once its all back together again.  Good luck with it all anyway.

[Lindsay S]

The followers are the only thing that give me slight concern but the marks on them are nothing you can feel and as far as I can see, are just evidence of the cam sliding over them. Jolly bad design really when you compare them to the Royal Enfield ones that rotate and the ‘series’ Land Rovers with their roller tappets!
As for my filter, I don’t think it looks any worse than other places they have been mounted, except inside the tool box! Certainly peace of mind to have a proper filter somewhere, especially with modern oils.

[Worty]

Getting back to the original post concerning placement of your filter, I've attached a picture of the W800 filter which as Worty said is in a similar location although a bit more tucked in between the frame tubes. As you can see Kawasaki saw the need for a very nicely executed stainless steel cap, partly to look more shiny (at least it does when its clean!) than a bare filter but mainly to protect it from flying stones etc.

The cap is a very good idea, particularly as the Kawasaki mudguard is short so the underside of the engine and oil filter get continuously blasted with grit, stones, water, salt, etc (I have now put on a mudflap which makes a massive amount of difference).

As for the original, valanced Beeza guard, it's enough to prevent anything from small mammals to land mines hitting the filter.

[Opo]

Cam is brand new 356 from SRM an I used the slippery stuff that they sent with it plus I filled the trough. The cam followers were re-faced to remove the wear ridge as there was plenty of hard stuff left on them and I don’t trust the new rubbish they sell now. They look worse in the picture but they look OK in the flesh.
It looks like source of the tiny silvery magnetic pieces may have come from the drive side main. I removed the inner race and flushed it onto a clean piece of white kitchen towel and found a few particles. On dismantling the bearing, I found some areas where the surface in corner was breaking up, similarly on the outer race; I should have replaced it and the seal on the build; lesson learned! Every thing else looks perfect; as it should. I guess I won’t get the bits I need till after the seasonal madness!

When I´m looking at the photos seems that there has been tapered roller bearing!? Am I right? There should be roller bearing NFL30, R130L or LRJA30. What marking there is on the bearing? If there has been tapered rolling bearing it has been pushing the crankshaft towards the timing side bush!