Author Topic: Auctions - has the world gone mad?  (Read 346 times)

Online limeyrob

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Auctions - has the world gone mad?
« on: 15.11. 2024 10:38 »
I follow a number of classic bike auctions, prices have been getting more and more crazy. I don't mean high or low, just irrational.  The latest NEC auction last week end threw up an extreme example:
https://www.iconicauctioneers.com/1961-bsa-gold-star-rec13424-1-nec-1124?pn=1&el=23592&pp=100
https://www.iconicauctioneers.com/c1970-raleigh-chopper-rec13934-1-nec-1124?pn=1&el=23821&pp=100
Is a restored Goldie (with the 190mm brake!) only worth 2 1/2 kids bikes?
I'm struggling to make sense of it.
The good news is that anyone who wants a Goldie can probably afford one now.
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Online rocker21

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Re: Auctions - has the world gone mad?
« Reply #1 on: 15.11. 2024 12:36 »
yes prices have fallen a lot my nice fieldmaster in the same auction only made £1600 and it was a good runner, nice bike, just not used so i sold it.
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Online limeyrob

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Re: Auctions - has the world gone mad?
« Reply #2 on: 15.11. 2024 13:27 »
But why about the £2k Chopper? It makes no sense.  I'm trying to sort the instruments on my 59 RR.  Its got the wrong speedo and a cheap tacho. Tacho gearbox rotates wrong way, hence the cheap tacho. So the gear box is £160, the speedo is £150 to £400 and same for the tacho so just the instruments could be £600. Its getting cheaper to buy a bike and take the bits off, something I really hate.
I wonder if what's going on with bikes is the same as vintage aircraft?  A mate has a friend who restored a Hawker Hurricane, took about 5 years of really hard work and at the end its value was about £1.5M , last week a crashed SL500 sold for $6M.  The point is anyone can pay to have a car restored and then drive it, very few can fly a vintage plane and even if you can it is very hard.  Now a lot less people have motorcycle licenses so perhaps there are more bikes chasing fewer people who can ride them?
The guy who restored the Hurricane sold his business and now repairs vintage cars, same skills, lots of business because they keep crashing them and a much higher hourly rate.
Slough 59 GF/SR

Online groily

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Re: Auctions - has the world gone mad?
« Reply #3 on: 15.11. 2024 14:24 »
No doubt about, prices have fallen steeply. Not surprising for everyday machines perhaps, but I guess owners of the better stuff hope it will retain its value. If not, then the chances of people spending large amounts on making things correct are going to reduce I'd have thought. It's long been possible to lose a shedload on even partial restorations, after all - but as you say Rob, several hundred ££ for a handful of small parts - and probably repeated in several departments . . . doesn't bear thinking about.

Thinking about your Fieldmaster rocker 21, I was intrigued to see a Red Hunter I owned in the early/mid '70s go for a measly 1200 squid at Cheffins the other day. A nice bike, looking exactly as it did back then (and still with a desirable motor, albeit earlier, with alloy barrel and HC piston & polished steel flywheels), and barely used in decades.  A bargain I thought, if ever there was.
Had I see the thing a day before the auction rather than a couple of days after, I'd have snaffled it for me me me (whether I really wanted it or not!) for sentiment's sake.
Bill

Online Rex

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Re: Auctions - has the world gone mad?
« Reply #4 on: 15.11. 2024 16:16 »
I sold a bike to Andy Tiernan in June 22. He's still got it and it's on sale for £2.5k less than he paid me for it.
Prices have really tanked but it must be hard on many dealers and suppliers.

Online limeyrob

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Re: Auctions - has the world gone mad?
« Reply #5 on: 15.11. 2024 16:34 »
The big gamble is whether this is temporay - winter, Labour, hitting pensions etc or permanent.  If its temporary then look for the bike you always wanted, actually not a bad plan either way.  I recall passing up an Aston Martin DBS V8 at the peak of the oil crisis becuse we thought it would never be sellable.  A few years later it was unaffordable.
I didn't think the bikes would be hit as hard as cars because its a lot easier to leave a bike in a shed, storing cars takes room and costs more, but I may have been wrong.
Slough 59 GF/SR

Online Sakura

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Re: Auctions - has the world gone mad?
« Reply #6 on: 15.11. 2024 18:54 »
I sold a bike to Andy Tiernan in June 22. He's still got it and it's on sale for £2.5k less than he paid me for it.
Prices have really tanked but it must be hard on many dealers and suppliers.

When I asked him how the drop in prices is affecting him he said " I'm a lot less rich than I used to be!". Said with a wry smile.  *conf*
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Online Roger (Doomtrainbarx)

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Re: Auctions - has the world gone mad?
« Reply #7 on: 15.11. 2024 19:16 »
This may be a guide as to prices ?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/305906049557
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Online limeyrob

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Re: Auctions - has the world gone mad?
« Reply #8 on: 15.11. 2024 19:51 »
Yes. Goldies seem to have fallen more than GFs. I think its because they are an acquired taste and quite tricky to live with.  The idea of one is better than the reality of slipping the clutch to 30, fouled plugs and horrendous vibration.  Mine would loosen the screws in my glasses!  An A10 does what it says on the tin and has no especially bad habits.
But my point was actually about the illogicality of what is selling and what is not, 1950s pedal cars and Raleigh Choppers for example.
Slough 59 GF/SR

Online sean

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Re: Auctions - has the world gone mad?
« Reply #9 on: 15.11. 2024 23:36 »
I think a lot lies in the economy , people dont have extra cash to spend and the people that always wanted the bike they couldnt afford when they were younger are all getting older .
we all know rebuilding our old classics and keeping them on the road isnt cheap , hopefully parts prices will drop .

Offline Black Sheep

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Re: Auctions - has the world gone mad?
« Reply #10 on: 16.11. 2024 06:42 »
Bike prices drop but parts get dearer. My wife's Yamaha Diversion cost £4,000 new. Now we would be lucky to get £500 for it. I recently turned one down at £250. Yet a new exhaust for one is more than £1,100.
A fairly extreme example but that's the way things are heading.
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Re: Auctions - has the world gone mad?
« Reply #11 on: 16.11. 2024 08:11 »
Bike prices drop but parts get dearer. My wife's Yamaha Diversion cost £4,000 new. Now we would be lucky to get £500 for it. I recently turned one down at £250. Yet a new exhaust for one is more than £1,100.
A fairly extreme example but that's the way things are heading.
Hard to see how things could go any other way I think.
We already suffer from quite a lot of poor quality replica parts for older machines, because we want what we regard as 'affordable' for what are low volume production runs. Affordable to the purchaser necessitates low manufacturing costs in faraway places. Quality isn't the number one priority, if it's even a priority at all. 'Affordable' to a quality supplier may well mean unaffordable to us.

Ask anyone responsible for parts manufacture and supply for the one-make clubs with dedicated spares operations how they're feeling: it is getting harder and harder. Fewer and fewer small-batch producers are still going; costs through the roof for energy, business rates, hiring staff and training them, machinery costs and maintenance, constant government interference, you name it. It's enough to destroy the will to live.

If volumes reduce further (which I am sure they will), then costs must climb to compensate, or those who are currently still in the game will have to drop out entirely. If Andy Tiernan is feeling the pinch, per Rex' comment, then imagine you are scratching a living making, say, camshafts?

I'm not in favour of stockpiling - my kids dread it every time they look in the shed as it is - but it's hard not to be tempted when the opportunity arises if we are to maintain decent mileages on classics. In the past 4 or so years I've reduced from somewhere around 12000 miles a year on a mix of old bikes (only 250 miles a week after all) to more like half that, but even so  . . . To do a mere 500 miles a month year round, parts are needed regularly to cope with normal wear, and mishaps and mayhem can make it a lot worse.

You cite the cost of a Yam Divvy exhaust system Black Sheep - and yes, it's not untypical. My XJR has had downpipes and a couple of collector boxes over the years (now in stainless luckily, after-market, no more mild steel original bits thanks) and those alone are worth a goodly % of the value of the scruffy beast itself.

I think we're going to see a spate of classic machines broken up for parts - like in the old days (and as for accident-damaged modern machines). I'm already seeing some of that here in France, where - despite prices holding up better than in the UK so far - there are complete and perfectly sound project bikes going for spares as owners try to pick up enough £€$ piece by piece to fund other builds or pay other bills. Maybe we've had our 30 or 40 years in the sun after all. I'd be very depressed were I a stripling of 40 - but it's more a question of resignation with an extra 30 years under the belt.
Bill

Online Sakura

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Re: Auctions - has the world gone mad?
« Reply #12 on: 16.11. 2024 09:20 »



I think we're going to see a spate of classic machines broken up for parts - like in the old days (and as for accident-damaged modern machines). I'm already seeing some of that here in France, where - despite prices holding up better than in the UK so far - there are complete and perfectly sound project bikes going for spares as owners try to pick up enough £€$ piece by piece to fund other builds or pay other bills. Maybe we've had our 30 or 40 years in the sun after all. I'd be very depressed were I a stripling of 40 - but it's more a question of resignation with an extra 30 years under the belt.

Yep, it's already happening. Look at Parkwood products on eBay. He's getting more from breaking than selling complete bikes. Perhaps not a bad thing if it makes parts available to get bikes back on the road?
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Online Rex

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Re: Auctions - has the world gone mad?
« Reply #13 on: 16.11. 2024 09:24 »
I think a lot lies in the economy , people dont have extra cash to spend and the people that always wanted the bike they couldnt afford when they were younger are all getting older .
we all know rebuilding our old classics and keeping them on the road isnt cheap , hopefully parts prices will drop .

The age demographic who're enthusiastic over 60+ year old bikes are gradually shuffling off this mortal coil, and single bikes and collections are being put on the market by *heartbroken* rellies anxious to offload the old junk in the shed, and hence further saturating an already flooded market.
OTOH, some of this age demographic have enough spare cash to indulge themselves in toys, and so the current state of Western economies isn't really a factor in prices, in my opinion.
Never gone along with the "bikes they couldn't afford when they were young" either. The recent high values of Goldies, Vins, etc wasn't driven by demand from 80 year olds eager to buy.

* Possibly.

Offline Black Sheep

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Re: Auctions - has the world gone mad?
« Reply #14 on: 17.11. 2024 06:23 »
Even Vincents. A few years ago my wife was offered her Dad's old Vincent for the very special price of only £30,000 when they were fetching £50,000+. Some sold recently for £18,000.
She didn't buy it in case you were wondering.
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