Author Topic: Auto Advance  (Read 416 times)

Offline Roger (Doomtrainbarx)

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Auto Advance
« on: 29.08. 2024 19:14 »
Anybody here familiar with the 5 brass roller auto advance mechanism ?
1962 Super Rocket
2003 Kawasaki Z1000
1987 Kawasaki ZL1000 Eliminator
1989 Harley FXRS (Turbo)

Offline muskrat

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Re: Auto Advance
« Reply #1 on: 29.08. 2024 20:18 »
G'day Roger.
I can't picture a "5 brass roller auto advance mechanism". A google search gave nothing.
What is it fitted to? Can you post a pic?
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS racer now a A10CR, '78 XT500, '83 CB1100F, 88 HD FXST, 2000 CBR929RR ex Honda Australia Superbike .
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Offline Roger (Doomtrainbarx)

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Re: Auto Advance
« Reply #2 on: 29.08. 2024 20:54 »
Will try and post a pic tomorrow - thanks for your reply.
1962 Super Rocket
2003 Kawasaki Z1000
1987 Kawasaki ZL1000 Eliminator
1989 Harley FXRS (Turbo)

Online trevinoz

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Re: Auto Advance
« Reply #3 on: 29.08. 2024 22:59 »
That would be a BTH unit I guess.

Online groily

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Re: Auto Advance
« Reply #4 on: 30.08. 2024 06:23 »
https://www.ebay.fr/itm/186451671093
Scroll down on the link and there should be a tired BTH one, now sold, with pix from both sides.
Clock-type spring on 'inside' face, rollers in the sandwich between driving and driven members.
Same principles of basic operation as the Lucas, and interchangeable. I've mostly seen them on 5T and 6T Triumphs. New fibre gears are available (for Triumphs anyway.)
Wouldn't like to argue the merits of these ones versus Lucas, but the BTH has a very solid feel. The springs are not easy to find though, I seem to recall when needing one a while back.
See also page 7 of the BTH booklet here for a fuzzy drawing: https://library.brightsparkmagnetos.com/library/BTH/BTH%20KC%20BKH%20KD%20KH%20Instruction%20Book%201377.pdf
Bill

Offline Roger (Doomtrainbarx)

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Re: Auto Advance
« Reply #5 on: 30.08. 2024 15:26 »
Trev and Bill are quite right - now I've cleaned the rust off a bit I can see it's stamped BTH.
The problem is that when it's in my hands the the spring returns the weights to retard as normal ,but when I install it and tighten the centre bolt it causes the unit to go tight and bind up.
It looks like it's rivetted together so maybe a throw away unit ?
Could I replace it with the later more common AAU ?
1962 Super Rocket
2003 Kawasaki Z1000
1987 Kawasaki ZL1000 Eliminator
1989 Harley FXRS (Turbo)

Online groily

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Re: Auto Advance
« Reply #6 on: 30.08. 2024 16:56 »
No way throwaway Roger! Riveted, yup - so are Lucas - but correct rivets can be had.
If you don't want the BTH item, I'm sure you could get some useful £$€ for it, even if it's tired, as they don't grow on trees. Triumph owners particularly look for them, as a lot of the '50s pre-units had BTH KC2 magnetos. I've seen some wear on them, sure - flats on the brass rollers and so on, springs with a busted hooky end as I mentioned (and we know how trying to form new hooky ends on clock springs goes - badly, almost always!) but there's a demand for them and there's a steady market for new fibre pinions for them.

On the binding front, depending on exactly 'how tight' etc, could be it's not actually abnormal - CheeserBeezer's Priory Mags website has the best summary of some of the issues, under'A Bit of ATD Theory'. (Of course, if it jams solid, it's definitely not normal though!)

You could replace it with the Lucas version, yes, as the tapers and threads are the same. I'm pretty sure pinion alignment would remain good but I don't know what the degrees of movement are on BTHs, or the choices that were available. But I do know that the Triumphs had 15-18° on their Lucas-equipped versions, which is more than Beesas' 11-13°. That's at the mag, so double it for the crank.
Bill

Offline Roger (Doomtrainbarx)

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Re: Auto Advance
« Reply #7 on: 30.08. 2024 18:57 »
Thanks for your help Bill - I'll have a look on Andrew's page.
1962 Super Rocket
2003 Kawasaki Z1000
1987 Kawasaki ZL1000 Eliminator
1989 Harley FXRS (Turbo)