Author Topic: Best rebuild upgrades  (Read 980 times)

Online berger

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Re: Best rebuild upgrades
« Reply #15 on: 02.06. 2024 12:08 »
hi col you need to correct the dynamo cork bit mate,  *beer*

Offline Swarfcut

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Re: Best rebuild upgrades
« Reply #16 on: 03.06. 2024 09:17 »
    With the primary drive components removed, give the crankshaft a good in/out push and pull. There should be just a small amount of end float, most likely the crank will move with a bit of a distinct clunk. This float is controlled by circular shim washers between the main bearing inner race and the crank web. A loose primary retaining nut means the bearing inner race can move and this will wear away the shims (and the crank web, in bad examples).

 Debris on the sump plate gauze is where it all ends up. These initial checks will give further insight in what to expect when the cases come apart.....don't forget the nut on the internal casting web above the camshaft. With all retaining nuts and studs removed, the casings come apart fairly easily, use a heat gun to soften any jointing, resist the temptation to lever the cases brutally apart, the sealing faces are narrow and easily damaged by cold chisels and other hooligan tricks.

  Most of the standard parts are fine for your style of use. A roller bearing end fed crank mod is well documented, expensive, but not necessary for leisure riding. Sump plate with a drain, raising the overall gear ratio with different primary and gearbox sprockets and a filter in the oil return to the tank are simple mods which bring immediate benefits and peace of mind. Brakes need good linings and setting up properly. Triumph type 4 Spring Clutch, as you have, just needs attention to detail to work well, far superior to the earlier BSA 6 Spring. All clutches suffer from drag, at least when it clunks you know you are in gear. Snick into neutral before a standstill, most boxes won't come out of gear without a struggle..... Plenty more on the Forum to explore.

 Swarfy.

Online sean

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Re: Best rebuild upgrades
« Reply #17 on: 03.06. 2024 23:22 »
sounds like your motor is tired and needs a rebuild , up grades will depend on your secret *smiley4* bank account funds......
main thing is to clean out the sludge trap , a new spring and check ball while the cases are apart  and  dont forget to clean the ball seating surface and re seat new ball .
a timing side bearing with a nylon cage makes end play  shim adjustments easier .
good luck ...dont tell the wife how much you spent !

Online Colsbeeza

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Re: Best rebuild upgrades
« Reply #18 on: 06.06. 2024 22:22 »
Hi SC, Berger drew my attention to an error in my check list.
"Cork spacer beneath the dynamo large drive sprocket – controls camshaft endfloat". A seniors moment! *red* Should read "controls idler shaft endfloat".
Berger does that sound better??
Col
1961 Golden Flash
Australia

Online Colsbeeza

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Re: Best rebuild upgrades
« Reply #19 on: 06.06. 2024 22:28 »
SC, Further to that, the idler cork in my gasket kit was about 5mm thick. I measured a bit over 3mm, so thinned it down on my bench grinder holding it on a wooden dowell as per photo. It was way too slow using sandpaper. Endfloat was finally close to zero. It partially seals oil from entering the outer timing case and reduces noise.
Col
1961 Golden Flash
Australia

Online berger

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Re: Best rebuild upgrades
« Reply #20 on: 06.06. 2024 23:09 »
hi col , seniors moment , i have loads . i put my cork in the vice and squashed the blighter . *bash*

Offline Swarfcut

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Re: Best rebuild upgrades
« Reply #21 on: 07.06. 2024 08:40 »
 Give that little fella the luxury of a smear of grease on assembly. He's squidged between the underside of the dynamo sprocket and the raised boss of the inner cover bush location. In the first few moments of dry running he'll get burned. After a warm up the usual grease in the dynamo cavity does the job, but not on initial start.

 Pretty clever of BSA to use a cork which will compress down. Reckon Col was being far more careful than BSA ever were.
 Ignorance in less enlightened times meant it was often discarded as being an ineffective oil seal and its capacity to eliminate idler gear shaft float overlooked. Stopping the float does result in a quieter timing gear train and stable alignment of the dynamo chain. How does the cork survive in a dry box belt drive application?

 Swarfy.

Online limeyrob

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Re: Best rebuild upgrades
« Reply #22 on: 07.06. 2024 09:36 »
My bike came with about a dozen corks of all sizes (why??) but most were far too thick.  I set it to just touch - about 1/8" in my case.  There's no relative motion, the cork spins with the gear, and if its too thick it puts pressure on the timing case and I'm not sure what its doing.  There's no side force on the gear (straight cut) and the breather is open to atmosphere when open or equalised when closed.
Slough 59 GF/SR

Online berger

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Re: Best rebuild upgrades
« Reply #23 on: 07.06. 2024 12:22 »
Rob the cork is the dynamo drive sprocket one , i think you are on about the many corks of different thickness for the breather.

Online Rex

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Re: Best rebuild upgrades
« Reply #24 on: 07.06. 2024 12:36 »
Yeah, I'm confused now; is the thread about the dynamo cork seal or the breather seal?

Offline spottycat

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Re: Best rebuild upgrades
« Reply #25 on: 08.06. 2024 08:04 »
sounds like your motor is tired and needs a rebuild , up grades will depend on your secret *smiley4* bank account funds......
main thing is to clean out the sludge trap , a new spring and check ball while the cases are apart  and  dont forget to clean the ball seating surface and re seat new ball .
a timing side bearing with a nylon cage makes end play  shim adjustments easier .
good luck ...dont tell the wife how much you spent !

Sean, I have not come across a timing side bush with nylon cage and can't find a listing for such a thing online. Can you link me to such a thing please? Not sure how it will make shimming easier until I see one. Cheers, Chris
61 A10

Offline Swarfcut

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Re: Best rebuild upgrades
« Reply #26 on: 08.06. 2024 09:19 »
 As a note of explanation the standard design uses a roller bearing on the drive side which has a single lip to the outside of the crankcase, in other words the crank is free to remain in place as the drive side crankcase half is removed, taking with it the outer race track.

 This leaves the rollers and cage on the inner race, which itself is firmly on the crankshaft in most cases. This must be removed and replaced in order to adjust the crank end float by means of the circular shims between the inner race and the crank web. This is all well documented  on the Forum, so no big deal. The problem is removing the inner part of the bearing, usually a tight fit on the shaft, without damage. Having a bearing which can be dismantled is a great help, plastic or nylon carriers are flexible enough to allow the rollers to be popped out, improving access to the inner race.

 Standard bearing is NF type, another one used by some folks is a NJ type, here the rollers stay in the outer race, the axial load carrying inner lip now being next to the crank web. Plenty about this on the Forum, as is the pro's and con's of  using a simple (and cheaper) standard deep groove ball race to eliminate crank end float entirely, as on the Longstroke A7 and early A65.

 Plenty of choice from UK bearing suppliers, Bearing Boys and Simply Bearings have comprehensive listings with technical info on the various types.

 Swarfy.

Online limeyrob

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Re: Best rebuild upgrades
« Reply #27 on: 08.06. 2024 10:41 »
The fit of the inner race on the crankshaft varies as these are now very old engines and some have been worked on more than others.  With luck it wont be too tight in which case a bit of heat and it may come off.  This makes setting the end float a lot easier. If it is a had fit you can loctite it and it held by the cush drive nut so this must be tight.  Mine has a metal cage.
Slough 59 GF/SR

Online sean

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Re: Best rebuild upgrades
« Reply #28 on: 08.06. 2024 16:13 »
sounds like your motor is tired and needs a rebuild , up grades will depend on your secret *smiley4* bank account funds......
main thing is to clean out the sludge trap , a new spring and check ball while the cases are apart  and  dont forget to clean the ball seating surface and re seat new ball .
a timing side bearing with a nylon cage makes end play  shim adjustments easier .
good luck ...dont tell the wife how much you spent !
sorry my mistake I should proof read what I write ....I meant drive side bearing  ,...timing side is a bushing 

Sean, I have not come across a timing side bush with nylon cage and can't find a listing for such a thing online. Can you link me to such a thing please? Not sure how it will make shimming easier until I see one. Cheers, Chris