Author Topic: Best rebuild upgrades  (Read 977 times)

Offline spottycat

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Best rebuild upgrades
« on: 01.06. 2024 21:17 »
Hi, I am seeking opinions on what upgrades are the best to implement or what specific A10 related things I should be looking out for when doing an engine rebuild. I have worked on plenty of engines but mostly Japanese bikes or car engines, so though competent, I lack A10 specific knowledge. I have owned my 1961 A10 for a year. Following a few issues on a UK tour last year (Oil leaks and cush drive) I hoped to do a top end rebuild this spring so I could head out again. On inspection I have already found badly worn valve guides that I will replace. One small end bearing is loose in the conrod and the second is off centre and out of position. As I don't know the history of the bike I have decided to check out the bottom end too. So for those with lots of A10 specific experience I ask - what upgrades would you recommend? - bushes to bearings? Also, are there issues specific to the A10 that could easily be overlooked that I should be sure to check? Once I have her reliable I plan to ride some fairly lengthy tours at a fairly steady pace. I am not a purist so if there are reasonable upgrades just to make her nice to ride and reliable that would be great but I don't need ultimate performance. I look forward to hearing people's opinions. Cheers, Chris
61 A10

Offline chaterlea25

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Re: Best rebuild upgrades
« Reply #1 on: 01.06. 2024 21:32 »
Hi Chris
Welcome to the Forum,
Please post an introduction in the appropriate section otherwise it will get mixed into this tech topic..

Upgrades are completely dependent on the health of ones wallet  *ex*
Before upgrading the engine performance does the engine have a thick flange cylinder and big bearing crank?
Although the earlier engines perform well when well put together, I would not put high comp pistons and a 357 cam in one.
When rebuilding the engine it is vital to clean out the crank sludge trap
I would also advise fitting a new oil pump
A lot will depend on what bore size the cylinder now is and what  undersize the big ends are and what other ailments are found on strip down.
For long distance touring plans I would  increase the size of the engine sprocket to 22 or 23 teeth and consider dynamic balancing of the rotating assembly to lower vibration

Costs are largely down to how much of the work you can do yourself

John
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Offline spottycat

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Re: Best rebuild upgrades
« Reply #2 on: 01.06. 2024 21:45 »
John, Many thanks for your reply. Though I have worked on many engines I know I have a lot to learn about the A10. I will add more information once I have things fully stripped but to start with I can see the pistons are +40, so probably one, maybe two rebores have taken place in the past. I will measure these out to see how things stand. It does wet sump so I had thought about a new oil pump, maybe SRM. My budget, by the way, is probably middling and not limitless and I should be able to do the majority of the work myself apart from regrinds or rebores, for example, should they be necessary. Having read quite a bit on the forum already I have the sludge trap in my sights. I am not sure what the standard engine sprocket is but thanks for the advice on that. I don't need a super expensive dry clutch that I have read about or increased performance I just seek a reliable bike that's nice to ride.
61 A10

Online KiwiGF

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Re: Best rebuild upgrades
« Reply #3 on: 01.06. 2024 22:12 »
Assuming all worn parts are replaced/fixed (including oil pump), and timing side main is line bored properly….Thunder Engineering or equivalent con rods, SRM or equivalent 356 cam, flat top pistons, oil filter in return.

Maybe the conversion of the anti wet sumping valve in the crankcase to A65 style as well.

There are many other upgrades, but that would be my minimum (until I think of something I missed 😏).

Nice to haves, electronic mag, belt primary drive, new Amal carb, SRM pump etc etc
New Zealand

1956 A10 Golden Flash  (1st finished project)
1949 B31 rigid “400cc”  (2nd finished project)
1968 B44 Victor Special (3rd finished project)
2001 GL1800 Goldwing, well, the wife likes it
2009 KTM 990 Adventure, cos it’s 100% nuts

Online limeyrob

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Re: Best rebuild upgrades
« Reply #4 on: 01.06. 2024 22:29 »
An A10 with a big bearing crank and thick flange cylinders is a pretty good engine. While you have the bottom end apart its worth putting in a new timing side  main bush and get it line bored.  Is it an ally head or cast iron?
Personally I would not spend much on upgrades, I would focus on getting it to work as well as possible.  When new people would ride huge distances without a 2nd thought so the challenge is to get the engine back to that sort of condition.
New valves and guides are worth doing and they need seat cutting and perhaps honing depending on the material. I would avoid valve stem seals, people fit them but it increases wear.
A standard cast iron head Golden Flash has enough power for long distance cruising but as said above, gearing is a bit low so a bigger final drive sprocket is worth fitting. 
Check the rear drive sprocket to make sure its not a 17 tooth a sidecar.  19 is std.  Engine sprocket should be at least 21t.  These are long stroke engines with plenty of low end torque so they pull a higher gear well. 
Its is worth spending time on the front brake, better shoes, a truing or getting a TLS.
When you say cush drive do you mean on the crank?  If so dis it come undone?  The SRM nut is a good idea as its easier to torque up.
I second the return oil filter, its cheap worthwhile mod.  I've just fitted one to mine.
Where did the oil leak from?
Slough 59 GF/SR

Offline muskrat

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Re: Best rebuild upgrades
« Reply #5 on: 01.06. 2024 22:50 »
G'day Chris  *welcome*
Pretty much all of the above. Yours should be a thick flange and large journal crank. I recently rebuilt my 51 A7, very similar to your A10. A bit long winded https://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=16831.msg144506#msg144506 . Like you boring and grinding are things I can't do but the rest is straight forward for you to tackle.
SRM oil pump and A65 anti wet sump conversion is advised. I hate the cheap & nasty s/a clutch, many here can get them to work but mine was too far gone, I'd spring for a 4 spring.
Lots of info here https://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?board=17.0 and https://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?board=46.0 And remember there's no such thing as a silly question.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS racer now a A10CR, '78 XT500, '83 CB1100F, 88 HD FXST, 2000 CBR929RR ex Honda Australia Superbike .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline spottycat

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Re: Best rebuild upgrades
« Reply #6 on: 01.06. 2024 22:55 »
Limeyrob, Thanks.I like your ideas of nothing too fancy but get it working right. that fits in with my ethos. The head is cast iron. When you say thick flanged cylinder I don't know what I.m comparing it to. If I understand what you mean then you are talking about the flange at the base of the cylinder where we bolt to the casings. It measures approx 1/2 inch - is that thick? You also talk of a big bearing crank. I will split the engine and have a look tomorrow - what size is a big bearing?  I had wondered about valve stem seals. I will get new guides and new valves properly cut in. I had the front brake drum trued (it wasn't bad) and new shoes. It's not great but then I am more recently used to more modern bikes, so it never will be. I looked into a TLS but there did not seem to be an easy solution. Yes, the cush drive came loose and started eating away at the case! I added an oil filter soon after getting it as that seemed a no brainer. The head was leaking which is why I started a top end rebuild which is leading to a bigger job as I didn't like the look of the valve stems or the small ends - made me think not all is well. I just checked and the engine sprocket is 19. I planned getting new sprockets and chain so useful advice. Cheers
61 A10

Offline spottycat

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Re: Best rebuild upgrades
« Reply #7 on: 01.06. 2024 23:02 »
Thanks Muskrat, I will have a read of your thread tomorrow. The A65 anti wet sump conversion interests me. I have been reading a little about valves and the fear of forgetting to open it when starting the bike. Who makes the A65 anti wet sump conversion you talk about? SRM? Having looked at my clutch basket there is clearly some signs of wear. I am not up for paying for the expensive dry clutch but had wondered about an SRM replacement.
61 A10

Online limeyrob

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Re: Best rebuild upgrades
« Reply #8 on: 01.06. 2024 23:55 »
Yes 1/2" is the one you want.  If the crank has a plain flywheel with bolts on the inside is the smaller journal and it its got 3 radial bolts holding the flywheel on it the later bigger journal.  The small ones seem more than up the job so its not a deal breaker.
Putting in a new timing side bush and getting it honed to fit (I had mine done a few weeks back, not too pricy) means you get a close fit which means more oil pressure and flow to the big ends.  Not that it matters too much, these engines seem to run and clatter away for years.
Spend time setting the timing and mixture, its a faff but it will run cooler if its right.
I'd also give the mag a once over, clean the pick up tracks and a new earth brush, same for dynamo - clean the commutator, they seem to get in a right mess.
Slough 59 GF/SR

Offline muskrat

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Re: Best rebuild upgrades
« Reply #9 on: 02.06. 2024 00:16 »
G'day Chris.
Here is the thread about the A65 anti wet sump conversion. https://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=13668.0
 You will notice in the first post there is the roller timing side. It is the same for the bush timing side.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS racer now a A10CR, '78 XT500, '83 CB1100F, 88 HD FXST, 2000 CBR929RR ex Honda Australia Superbike .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Online CheeserBeezer

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Re: Best rebuild upgrades
« Reply #10 on: 02.06. 2024 00:20 »
In original condition the A10 was a very reliable bike. I'd be aiming to get it as close as possible to its original spec and tolerances. Only fit recommended parts as it's highly unlikely you'll be able to find genuine BSA new-old-stock. As you have identified small end bush issues, I'd fit 'Lightning' rods supplied by Thunder Engineering as they don't have small end bushes. A big-bearing crank and thick flange barrels are better than the earlier ones but even the early ones were perfectly OK for normal riding. As stated previously, cleaning the sludge trap is essential but refitting it isn't as straightforward as it should be; you need to be sure that it is sealed at the ends and where the centre stud screws in, and the flange doesn't restrict the oil flow. A new oil pump is definitely worth considering (I find the SRM and Wassell pumps are good), and while on the timing side I'd fit a belt drive to the dynamo. In the primary chaincase I run Bob Newby clutches and belt drives on my bikes. These are far superior to the 6-spring and even the Triumph 4-spring clutch, though the 4-spring can be made to work well if set up properly. The engineered quality of the 6-spring is horrible, but even they can be set up to work OK. Using a belt drive also means you don't have to bother with oil in the chaincase, or grease in the dynamo drive. NEB also make excellent clutches and they give the option of retaining the primary chain. I would consider converting the dynamo to 12 volt and I would not fit electronic ignition. A well- restored magneto is your friend and will get you home if your charging circuit packs in or your battery dies. I'd increase the engine sprocket by 1 or 2 teeth, as stated previously, if you're not going to go for the belt drive. Sometimes, on A10 crankcases, the breather pipe has fallen out so breather gases and oil can, over time, liberally cover the back of the primary chaincase and the gearbox plates. This can be avoided by threading the exit hole ( I use 3/8 BSF) and fitting a threaded tube with loctite; then you can fit a breather tube which reaches down below the frame. I've mixed views about the A65 type anti-wet-sump as I came across one where the ball almost completely restricted the oil flow, maybe that was a one-off, but if you're doing that conversion be very careful and take advice from somebody who has done it themselves, successfully. A sump plate with a drain plug is a (necessary) improvement due to dealing with potential wet-sump issues. If you do this you'll probably use one of the aluminium kits available, then you'll need longer studs as using whitworth bolts or allen studs instead is not a good engineering solution as you can't tighten the bolts against the waist of the bolt.

Offline spottycat

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Re: Best rebuild upgrades
« Reply #11 on: 02.06. 2024 06:30 »
Cheeserbeezer, Thanks. The bike already has a belt drive dynamo, so that is one thing ticked off. Thanks for the info on the sludge trap. I will try to find a thread on here or some more specific information to make sure I do it right. The Bob Newby clutch and belt drive does sound very appealing but I think when I looked it was the cost that made me wince. The bike currently has a 4 spring clutch. There are some signs of wear on the clutch basket. Finding neutral at a standstill was sometimes not easy but I didn't ride too bad. We will see what I find on further examination and how healthy my bank account looks after doing everything else I need. The increase in engine sprocket size seems to be a theme from everyone so I will probably go that route. Like many, I am a little cautious about the anti wet sump. Hopefully, with a new pump fitted and regular use this won't be too much of an issue. The bike also has a sump plate. Hopefully drop the engine out today and see what I find. Many thanks.
61 A10

Online Rex

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Re: Best rebuild upgrades
« Reply #12 on: 02.06. 2024 09:37 »
I'd go even further than Cheeserbeezer and Limeyrob, and say rebuild it as standard other than worn components. As has been said, these bikes rode anywhere and everywhere when they were current (and then older) bikes, and aren't unreliable when properly built or maintained.
That said, I would fit an Amal Premier, have a mag rebuild, and a  DVR2 reg as a matter of course. 
There's always time later for the "nice but expensive" upgrades.

Online Colsbeeza

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Re: Best rebuild upgrades
« Reply #13 on: 02.06. 2024 10:41 »
Hi Spottycat,
Welcome!  *welcome*
A great bunch of experienced BSA nuts on the Forum. I have a 1961 GF which I rebuilt from a wreck. I kept it bog standard except for a few upgrades. I have thrown a check list together and attached. May be a good start to add everyones ideas for your investigations. PM me if you would like a Word Copy.
Col
1961 Golden Flash
Australia

Online limeyrob

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Re: Best rebuild upgrades
« Reply #14 on: 02.06. 2024 11:23 »
plus 1 to the DVR2, I fitted one last week after faffing about with both the Lucas mech regulator and then a Wassel solid state unit neither of which worked right.  The DVR2 worked right straight out the box.
Slough 59 GF/SR