Author Topic: 4 spring cluctch springs ?  (Read 1809 times)

Offline Stephen Foster

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4 spring cluctch springs ?
« on: 07.10. 2023 10:48 »
Good Morning ,

Can A knowledgeable member please let Me know if the springs or both 4 spring and 6 spring (swinging arm) are the same lengths and any other differences please ?

Thank You in advance ,
Steve..
I own a 1955/56 B.S.A Swinging Arm "Golden Flash" , had it since 1976 .

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Re: 4 spring cluctch springs ?
« Reply #1 on: 07.10. 2023 13:48 »
Stephen they are totally different in length and width the 6 spring are small the 4 spring are big, if you want a photo? i will post one later

Offline Stephen Foster

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Re: 4 spring cluctch springs ?
« Reply #2 on: 07.10. 2023 13:56 »
Thank You very much .
Yes , I would appreciate the photo if You do not mind ?
I own a 1955/56 B.S.A Swinging Arm "Golden Flash" , had it since 1976 .

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Re: 4 spring cluctch springs ?
« Reply #3 on: 07.10. 2023 16:05 »
a piccy of clutches

Offline Stephen Foster

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Re: 4 spring cluctch springs ?
« Reply #4 on: 09.10. 2023 11:09 »
Many Thanks !

On the subject of clutch operation ..how do I make the clutch as light as possible ?
Splitting the pushrod and inserting either a ball bearing or a roller ?
If so what size do these need to be please or are there other methods ?
I get cramp in My clutch fingers and am struggling sometimes so any advice would be appreciated greatly .
Ought to add that I have ordered the SRM clutch cover with needle bearing operation on advice from the forum .
Do I need to adjust My pushrod accordingly and this would be the time I would cut it to insert either the ball bearing or roller ?
How much heat is recommended by members please for pushrod hardening and is this quenched in oil ?

Thank You in advance,
Steve..
I own a 1955/56 B.S.A Swinging Arm "Golden Flash" , had it since 1976 .

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Re: 4 spring cluctch springs ?
« Reply #5 on: 09.10. 2023 11:44 »
A gentle sweep for a good clean cable, well adjusted spring tension, no graunching on the pushrod or operating arm at the gearbox, no burrs on the clutch drum or the tangs and notches on the plates is what you can do, short of increasing the length of the operating arm to gain mechanical advantage (which demands bigger hands!).

7/8th" between-centres 'bar levers will help a very surprising amount (if yours are an inch or more).
A modern Enduro-style lever at the 'bars would also probably help but look terrible.
A bearing in the pressure plate might make things smoother and feel better,  but not necessarily lighter.

Been trying to find a reference to or pic of a quite neat 'mid-point secondary lever' system that does / did exist but I can't find what I was looking for. It's out there somewhere, but maybe wasn't a commercially available gizmo. Idea was to make the cable a two-stage affair. First section ran to a fixed pivot with unequal length arms either side, second section from  there to clutch operating lever. Relative length each side of fulcrum determining the scale of the improvement. Never had one, not sure of effect on hand size, but do recall people saying 'transformative'.
Maybe someone else here has one or can find an example out there somewhere.
Bill

Online Billybream

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Re: 4 spring cluctch springs ?
« Reply #6 on: 09.10. 2023 11:45 »
The SRM Alloy clutch cover is a great modification, I then set up lift with a dial indicator. The addition of 1/4" ball or roller is a worthwhile mod at the same time as you will have to shorten the rod anyway to accommodate the new cover. Think I replaced my rod with a silver steel version and just heated the ends with propane gas torch to red hot, then quenched the ends in oil. Oiled my cable and now have 2 finger operation.
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Re: 4 spring cluctch springs ?
« Reply #7 on: 10.10. 2023 06:44 »
There are of course clutch springs of different poundage available. Choose the lightest ones which still prevent slip. B31 clutch springs are lower poundage than A10 ones. You can even fit a mix - two of each.
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Offline Colsbeeza

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Re: 4 spring cluctch springs ?
« Reply #8 on: 11.10. 2023 00:46 »
My new (3 years anyway) Dragonfly 4-spring clutch was heavy and slipped even after using a dial gauge to try to get even lift without achieving it. I had the springs screwed in with about 1/2 a ring showing. I found some gunk had burnt onto the plain plates, so stripped the clutch, cleaned off the gunk, soaked the fibre plates in petrol and dried them for a couple of days. On assembly, I found some light springs in my junk box and adjusted the lift for evenness by eye, then put the 220 mls of 15-40 motorcycle oil (without friction modifiers designed for wet clutches). The clutch is now very light, and requires only a poofteenth of lever movement to fully disengage the clutch. Best it has ever been.
Col
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Offline Stephen Foster

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Re: 4 spring cluctch springs ?
« Reply #9 on: 11.10. 2023 10:43 »
Thank You all for the advice .
Dont wish to labour the post but what is the sequence and number of the plates in the 4 spring clutch please (swinging arm) ?

I find it odd that there were 2 plain plates working from the bottom outwards ?
I own a 1955/56 B.S.A Swinging Arm "Golden Flash" , had it since 1976 .

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Re: 4 spring cluctch springs ?
« Reply #10 on: 11.10. 2023 21:16 »
found this on the forum for you but you insert a plain plate first up to the lip on the inner drum and finish with a plain on the compression plate o yes and 5 bonded 6 plain.

Offline Stephen Foster

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Re: 4 spring cluctch springs ?
« Reply #11 on: 15.10. 2023 09:24 »
Thank You all for the advice .
I have just replaced the plates leaving one of the bottom plain plates out .
I tested the plates for flatness on the surface plate ..gently filed the tangs in case of burrs and have fit the S.R.M pressure plate .
I am experimenting with push rod lengths before hardening ..is there any advantage to cutting the rod in 2 and adding either a 1/4 ball bearing or 1/4 roller ?
As I am at this stage this is the ideal time for Me to make the modification if there is a benefit ?

Thank You in advance ,
Steve
I own a 1955/56 B.S.A Swinging Arm "Golden Flash" , had it since 1976 .

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Re: 4 spring cluctch springs ?
« Reply #12 on: 15.10. 2023 12:20 »
i would say there is no benefit in putting a ball or a roller in the middle of the mainshaft, if your clutch arm ball bearing is free without flat spots and set up correctly for angle of movement the 4 spring works with ease , doesn't drag and doesn't slip. even if you ride it like i ride mine, very hard----- zooooom , sorry for adding banter *fight*

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Re: 4 spring cluctch springs ?
« Reply #13 on: 15.10. 2023 12:29 »
i would say there is no benefit in putting a ball or a roller in the middle of the mainshaft, if your clutch arm ball bearing is free without flat spots and set up correctly for angle of movement the 4 spring works with ease , doesn't drag and doesn't slip. even if you ride it like i ride mine, very hard----- zooooom , sorry for adding banter *fight*

Is there a banter ban *????*  I don't have the ball bearing thingy and my clutch is fine.  Does have a couple of clunky moments, especially when very hot after a thrashing (I mean 'steady ride' Bergs {ahem}), and complains when I get confused with the Kwaka and change down instead of up at a key moment *eek*  The best way for a smooth clutch is to make sure there's no play in the gearbox clutch arm, and not to belt the springs on the pressure plate up too tightly, oh, and to make sure the engine sprocket and chainwheel are in line *ex* *ex*
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Offline jhg1958

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Re: 4 spring cluctch springs ?
« Reply #14 on: 15.10. 2023 17:54 »
I put a ball bearing in the middle of mine mainly due to me cutting it too shorts. My clutch is smooth and I have no problems getting in gear.

John
1961 Golden Flash S/Arm