Author Topic: baby lady velocette  (Read 903 times)

Online groily

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baby lady velocette
« on: 10.04. 2023 14:24 »
A slipping clutch over the winter, so now time to play with my most complicated and hard-to-work-on bit of British  . . .

It goes like this -

Start by undressing  . . .
To reveal the vital organs  . . .
And decide what the game is to be, and how to play.

In this case, a lack of friction is to be addressed: new solid fibre clutch plates (three off) and springs (eight off). Plus a better wiring job, a remagnetise for the flywheel for the Miller alternator, and a few odds and sods.

Then she can have her clothes put back on again when we're done. A lot of fasteners, a minefield in millinery and hosiery  . . . but it will have been worth it. Just to do my typical 5-10 mile pleasure trips on the back roads, where her rheumatic and wheezing performance doesn't frighten other road users.
It takes all sorts!
Bill

Offline Greybeard

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Re: baby lady velocette
« Reply #1 on: 10.04. 2023 15:39 »
I think it's very sweet that someone loves those little tykes❤️
Greybeard (Neil)
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A Distinguished Gentleman Riding his 1955 Plunger Golden Flash

Online groily

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Re: baby lady velocette
« Reply #2 on: 10.04. 2023 16:41 »
It is pure sentiment GB, indeed it is. A quirky little 'divertissement' as they say round here.
But - they are actually technically pretty interesting, what with the shaft drive, the monocoque body, the radiator, the weather protection, instrumentation including oil pressure gauge, the wet sump with proper oil filter, etc. Silent-running almost, of course, and can be remarkably reliable - but the downside is the sv twin engine's distinct lack of oomph. Handling is pretty OK though, as far as the lack of power allows it to be tested.
Owners of 'proper' Velocettes shunned them for years (that's changed a lot nowadays though), and some blamed the tooling costs and lack of general (non-Police) sales for bankrupting A Great Marque  . . . but there's a very healthy Owners' Club just for them and the air-cooled Valiant variant on the theme, plus the Viceroy scooter; most spares are easy to get and affordable; and for moderate usage at modest speeds they are great little ugly-duckling commuters. During the pan(dem)ic mine went to the baker's every day and was my excuse for being out and about at will, when we weren't meant to be, and kept me sane.
This is the second one I have had in my life (so I am obviously a bit weird, but when you get a taste for a thing  . . .!)
Bill

Offline Rex

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Re: baby lady velocette
« Reply #3 on: 10.04. 2023 16:59 »
An added advantage is they're still cheap to buy... ;)
My second resto job when I was 19. A 149cc Mk1 with hand-start and hand gearchange.
Nicely engineered but I never did have the neck to ride it on the road when all my fellow apprentices had TS 250s, RD 250s etc etc etc.

Offline Greybeard

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Re: baby lady velocette
« Reply #4 on: 10.04. 2023 17:00 »
I remember police and park keepers using them, they are quiet
Greybeard (Neil)
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Offline RogerSB

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Re: baby lady velocette
« Reply #5 on: 11.04. 2023 21:37 »
 *smile* Ha! Been there!
Can be a little testing at times.
To fit two big exhaust pipes and two heavy silencers to my BSA A10 takes me about 1 hour.
To fit two spindly exhaust pipes and just one tiny silencer to my LE it took me over 3 hours!
But I love it  *smile* and such a comfortable ride - no wonder the police could poodle around all day on them.
Edit: 1954 MkII, Hand lever start and hand gear change.
Rog.

1960 Golden Flash

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Re: baby lady velocette
« Reply #6 on: 12.04. 2023 06:36 »
Proves one is never alone in one's eccentricities Rog! *loveit*
I preferred the 19" rims on my first one (pretty much same as yours) and I liked the hand-bits too. That was a late Mk 2. But I love the sought-after(!) tear-drop steel panniers on the current one.
The time some of the jobs takes is surprising indeed - and angling the lower water pipes so they don't melt against those exhausts  . . . always a close run thing!
Ordered up new friction clutch plates and new springs for mine yesterday from the owners' club and shall wrestle with my home-made flywheel extractor again in a day or two.
You probably have the multi-jet carb, I'm guessing - I'm happy to have the tiddler 363 Monobloc on mine, which is a first year Mk 3 from '58.
Rex mentioned 'affordable' - and yes, they really are. My first one was a whole £1 back in 1970. But there has been dreadful inflation, the current one was in modest three figures but still a fraction of the cost of most things and tremendous value.
Good luck with yours - that's a very very clean one. Worth at least £2, inflation-adjusted!
Bill

Offline Greybeard

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Re: baby lady velocette
« Reply #7 on: 12.04. 2023 09:41 »
How did those bikes come about? Where they designed for police services etc? I've seen a conventional bike frame with a similar engine; did that come first?
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Offline RogerSB

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Re: baby lady velocette
« Reply #8 on: 12.04. 2023 10:50 »
Bill, been back on the road since Aug 21 after year long overhaul. Yes, mine still has a multijet. I also fitted Minimag's electronic ignition, apart from that original spec.  (I used a Sykes- Pickavant valve spring compressor on the clutch).


Neil, Veloce produced a fairly conventional bike called the Valiant, which had a very similar engine but had a cover over it, which could be left off. Maybe that's what you saw.

The LE was first produced in 1949. The Mk II (like mine) is almost identical, just slightly bigger engine (192 c.c.) *smile* and some cosmetic changes in 1951. The MK III (like Bill's) superseded the Mk II in 1958 with a foot-operated gear change and a conventional kick start, 4 speed gearbox and further cosmetic changes.

It was ahead of it's time in 1949: With horizontally opposed twin cylinder, four stroke side valve, water cooled, shaft driven,
running boards and aluminium legshields.

The clutch and gears are much like a cars, so you can start the engine with the clutch lever pulled in, i.e. clutch disengaged (handy for a quick start if you stall it - as no fiddling to get in neutral).

The Police didn't start using LEs until the mid 1950s, when they purchased half of Veloce's production - and saved Veloce from going bust earlier than they would have otherwise. I've heard the police chose the LE because it was quite for urban patrolling - and they could sneak up on the trouble makers, problem was they couldn't catch anyone in a chase.

Rog.

1960 Golden Flash

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Re: baby lady velocette
« Reply #9 on: 12.04. 2023 10:54 »
For a short version of the history GB, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocette_LE.
And I see Rog has just come back on this too, as I was typing  . . . so apologies for repetition but I've hammered it out now!

Basically, conceived as a post-war commuter bike for Everyman - and Woman, very much so - the LE ('Little Engine') was big gamble that never really quite paid off. Idea was to revisit the two-wheeled car thing really, with quiet running, weather protection and all that. A big-wheeled scooter some might say, but really it's not. Luckily the Police took loads of them, over half the production in due course, and that led to a lot of good upgrades including 12v electrics to power radios etc. Civilian ones stayed at 6v though - both mine were/are - with flywheel alternators with three lighting coils and a pair of 3v HT coils in series (usually ditched in favour of a wasted spark double-ender, which is far cheaper than rewinding the originals)
They started with roller big ends and 150cc, plus BTH dynamo electrics, then went to 200cc with plain bush non-split big ends (steel rods), loads of bits of bronze everywhere in fact to support crank, reduction gear shaft for the clutch etc etc. And Miller ac electrics which are actually pretty darn solid. Loads a bits on the inside, all quite fiddly, with quite a bit of plumbing for the lubrication system. Accessibility is not a strong point for non-routine maintenance, no Sir, but to be fair they don't need much once they're up together. The last ones were made in 1970/71 and they were in use by police units for a few years after that. I used to compare notes with a local Hampshire policeman now and then when I had my first one.

The open-frame flat twin you mention was the air-cooled Valiant, launched in 1957 (so 9 years after the first LE) with two carbs and a rather more sprightly gait plus a classic 4 stroke noise. It had a heady 12bhp with overhead valves and a high compression ratio (well, 8.5:1 instead of I think about 7 on the LE). Same general idea but looked like a 'proper' bike, very pretty in fact, a small Duggie almost some might say (without meaning to insult another great marque!). Valiant engines have been put in LEs to create the odd 'Leval' - and there is even one LE running (I think it is running, anyway) with an electric motor.

The net net of it all was the factory got into a financial pickle, blamed by some on the LE programme, but probably coming anyway. I think they made a loss on the bulk sales, as the bikes were obviously expensive to make compared to a typical Villiers-engined lightweight or a Bantam, and were priced well above the norm for lightweights for civilian buyers. Presumably heavily-discounted for the police. But many many thousands were made across the 22-odd years they were current in their three different Marks.
The positive consequence of the Police sales was that there were gazillions of spares in lots of police workshops, which were snaffled up in the early days of the owners' club and saved for the future owners, quite a few of whom are even today former police officers who developed some bizarre form of fondness for the things. I got one when I was 15 because what else can you get for a £1 out of the cellar of one of your dad's mates ready for the Big Day when you were 16 and able to go places legally?

Not knowing any different, I found 'proper' bikes a bit startling when I discovered that 'acceleration' meant more than 'lean forward gently' - oh, and that other bikes also broke down quite a lot. But, as a 16 year old, it was transport, it was MINE, it was very reliable and it meant I could get jobs on building sites etc in school holidays outside the village and generally pretend to be a grown-up and get to the pub. Must have done a good few miles on it, and it never broke down, ever. Sold it in the end for £7.50 - SLT 310 where are you now I wonder? If you're out there I'll have you back any time  . . .

Bill

Offline Greybeard

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Re: baby lady velocette
« Reply #10 on: 12.04. 2023 11:09 »
Excellent writeup's guys. I can understand your fondness for those quirky machines.

When I was a young teenager I was on my pushbike in a local park. Cycling in the park was forbidden. The park keeper was sitting on his LE over the other side of the park. I heard the 'Parky' shout out to me, '"Get orf that bike!". I waved a cheeky hand at him and rode away across the park. He came roaring, (yeh, right!) across chasing me on his LE and eventually found me hiding behind the railway bridge abutments. He was furious because he thought I'd given him the two-finger salute, I hadn't *. We had a bit of an argument about it and I promised to keep off my bike in his park. How things have changed, eh? These days, well, we don't have park keepers any more and kids are riding powered scooters and bicycles anywhere they want. Cue more negativity about the state of the world. It's probably all because of the immigrants. 🙄

*I think the Parky actually needed to explain the two-finger salute meaning to me 😔
Greybeard (Neil)
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Offline RogerSB

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Re: baby lady velocette
« Reply #11 on: 12.04. 2023 11:16 »
Excellent description Bill.

And it must hold the record to be the only motorcycle that you need to lift the front-body assy off the rear-engine assy to fit a new clutch cable  *eek*.

Rog.

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Re: baby lady velocette
« Reply #12 on: 22.04. 2023 18:07 »
Well, here's a thing. Bit of a 'why,' and 'how the heck?' on the clutch front here!
Where did the tangs on the third friction plate go??? It was the middle one of three in the stack. The two others were OK in the tangs dept but had suffered from slipping due to being reduced to a two-plate device. Each plate is 3mm thick, but the 2 survivors were down to 2mm on the areas that were bearing the load.
The springs had lost 20% of their free length - all down to 1", compared to 1 1/4"as per spec.
Not surprising it couldn't handle the heady 8 bhp and the torque of a hair-drier involved in propelling this mighty beast.

The friction plates are 'all fibre', no metal backing, so I guess something got the disintegration process going, and in no time the second plate was stripped bare. Gawd knows why, never seen the like!

Going back together following arrival of new plates and springs from the very efficient owners' club yesterday, but oh what a palaver. Doing a few other jobs while I was at it involved getting the flywheel off its taper. That involves taking the sump off to chock the crankshaft using one of the webs, or risk twisting the built-up crank if doing it any other way. Resetting the flywheel in the 'right' spot, and setting the ignition timing (points cam and its ATD device), requires removal of a cylinder head - typical sv engine hassle of not being able to find TDC very easily. No keyways nowhere no place to help - it's always 'work from scratch' - or guess and do it twice or more. So you end up with bits all over the place and the need for a few 'consumables'.

And yes, Rog, I use the same valve spring compressor as you for the clutch assembly. Makes it pretty easy even without the plate centralising weapon we're supposed to use.

Fingers crossed for a smooth rest of job. £35 poorer + postage and post-Brexit taxes (not too bad actually), and a bit of time, and then I can get onto my 23 year old XJR 'modern', which badly needs fork oil seals (again) before the brakes die completely for being drenched in oil. Funny how that goes - 'just like that' in this case. One minute dry stanchions and sliders, the next, drenched. PITA job, but actually easier than a Beesa or most other classics.
Bill

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Re: baby lady velocette
« Reply #13 on: 23.04. 2023 00:34 »
On my pushie I used to overtake our local plod on his LE.
(And I reckon my pushie made more noise than the LE).
Yes I did get a bit of a downhill start.

Offline Greybeard

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Re: baby lady velocette
« Reply #14 on: 23.04. 2023 09:04 »
Bill, I hope you don't have to do that again anytime soon🤞
Greybeard (Neil)
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A Distinguished Gentleman Riding his 1955 Plunger Golden Flash