Author Topic: Possible seizure!!!  (Read 3824 times)

Offline Minto

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Re: Possible seizure!!!
« Reply #15 on: 16.04. 2022 18:23 »
TT, yep definitely gonna do that when I can get into the garage, right after I pull the plugs for inspection. Then repeat with the tank cap loosened. Then further in!
What kinda flow am I looking for in a minute? About 350 - 400 ml??
Cheers everyone for the gen!
Jase
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Online Triton Thrasher

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Re: Possible seizure!!!
« Reply #16 on: 16.04. 2022 20:00 »
TT, yep definitely gonna do that when I can get into the garage, right after I pull the plugs for inspection. Then repeat with the tank cap loosened. Then further in!
What kinda flow am I looking for in a minute? About 350 - 400 ml??
Cheers everyone for the gen!
Jase

I believe 400 ml/min is good flow on a 650.  You can get off with less, but it’s good to have a safety margin.

Online KiwiGF

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Re: Possible seizure!!!
« Reply #17 on: 16.04. 2022 21:22 »
TT, yep definitely gonna do that when I can get into the garage, right after I pull the plugs for inspection. Then repeat with the tank cap loosened. Then further in!
What kinda flow am I looking for in a minute? About 350 - 400 ml??
Cheers everyone for the gen!
Jase

It’s also worth checking the float bowl vent is clear (it vents through the tickler). It’s unlikely to be blocked but worth checking. When it’s blocked the float chamber does not fill up to the correct level, and fuel can get forced through the main jet.

I still think the fact it revved away when you started it is an indication of something else wrong......
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1956 A10 Golden Flash  (1st finished project)
1949 B31 rigid “400cc”  (2nd finished project)
1968 B44 Victor Special (3rd finished project)
2001 GL1800 Goldwing, well, the wife likes it
2009 KTM 990 Adventure, cos it’s 100% nuts

Offline Minto

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Re: Possible seizure!!!
« Reply #18 on: 16.04. 2022 22:22 »
TT, yep definitely gonna do that when I can get into the garage, right after I pull the plugs for inspection. Then repeat with the tank cap loosened. Then further in!
What kinda flow am I looking for in a minute? About 350 - 400 ml??
Cheers everyone for the gen!
Jase

It’s also worth checking the float bowl vent is clear (it vents through the tickler). It’s unlikely to be blocked but worth checking. When it’s blocked the float chamber does not fill up to the correct level, and fuel can get forced through the main jet.

I still think the fact it revved away when you started it is an indication of something else wrong......

When i first started it the carb was flooding a bit which is what I presumed the high revving to be a result of, which is why I shut the fuel tap off sharpish.
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Offline BagONails

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Re: Possible seizure!!!
« Reply #19 on: 16.04. 2022 23:54 »
TT, yep definitely gonna do that when I can get into the garage, right after I pull the plugs for inspection. Then repeat with the tank cap loosened. Then further in!
What kinda flow am I looking for in a minute? About 350 - 400 ml??
Cheers everyone for the gen!
Jase

It’s also worth checking the float bowl vent is clear (it vents through the tickler). It’s unlikely to be blocked but worth checking. When it’s blocked the float chamber does not fill up to the correct level, and fuel can get forced through the main jet.

I still think the fact it revved away when you started it is an indication of something else wrong......

When i first started it the carb was flooding a bit which is what I presumed the high revving to be a result of, which is why I shut the fuel tap off sharpish.

Minto, to rev up uncontrollably like that the engine must be able to draw fuel and AIR which would indicate the throttle slide was raised ie. stuck open. as per Kiwi’s comment above.
Ian
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Online JulianS

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Re: Possible seizure!!!
« Reply #20 on: 17.04. 2022 10:10 »
With piston seizure I always think lubrication failure.

Offline Swarfcut

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Re: Possible seizure!!!
« Reply #21 on: 17.04. 2022 10:52 »
 I reckon the cause of a sticky throttle needs a good looky look. Always a chance a piece of grit is embedded in the throttle slide, happily machining away the carb body.
 
 As for taking a look inside, as long as it runs without clanks, knocks or smoke, leave alone for now. All other suggestions are valid, simple and reassuring to check. Air cooled motors don't like low airspeed  up hill sloggs in high gear, in hot weather this can tip the balance enough to tighten up. Always better to keep the engine lightly loaded if possible on such gradients.

 I'd go with Julian on lubrication, something else that is easy to keep tabs on without having to dig too deep into the motor. Something as simple as too thin an oil for the ambient temperature.

 Swarfy.

Offline Minto

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Re: Possible seizure!!!
« Reply #22 on: 17.04. 2022 15:16 »
Hey Swarfy
Re the throttle, I’d put a new throttle cable on that same morning but there’d been no sign of sticking. Would the excessive heat from the engine maybe alter the fit of the slide in the body causing it to stick?
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Offline Swarfcut

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Re: Possible seizure!!!
« Reply #23 on: 17.04. 2022 20:30 »
Fair chance Jase. Just worth checking cable run, cable lubrication, slide and body for roughness, strength of return spring and no chance of the throttle slide fouling on the choke slide. A stuck throttle can be a death warrant if you can't reach the kill switch in time.

 Swarfy.

Online KiwiGF

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Re: Possible seizure!!!
« Reply #24 on: 17.04. 2022 20:54 »
Hey Swarfy
Re the throttle, I’d put a new throttle cable on that same morning but there’d been no sign of sticking. Would the excessive heat from the engine maybe alter the fit of the slide in the body causing it to stick?

Slides sticking “up” when the engine is hot is very common (particularly with A65’s). That is behind my “reply no 4”. Giving the carb a tap can result in an audible click as they drop down. A missing or ineffective insulation spacer is usually the cause, but distorted carb bodies from over tightening is also a common cause, which can be checked on a cold engine of course.

In your case there is an outside chance the engine “conked out” due to overheating with the throttle wide open, which led to the starting issues you described, and probably no piston seizure.
New Zealand

1956 A10 Golden Flash  (1st finished project)
1949 B31 rigid “400cc”  (2nd finished project)
1968 B44 Victor Special (3rd finished project)
2001 GL1800 Goldwing, well, the wife likes it
2009 KTM 990 Adventure, cos it’s 100% nuts

Offline Minto

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Re: Possible seizure!!!
« Reply #25 on: 17.04. 2022 23:12 »
Hey Swarfy
Re the throttle, I’d put a new throttle cable on that same morning but there’d been no sign of sticking. Would the excessive heat from the engine maybe alter the fit of the slide in the body causing it to stick?

Slides sticking “up” when the engine is hot is very common (particularly with A65’s). That is behind my “reply no 4”. Giving the carb a tap can result in an audible click as they drop down. A missing or ineffective insulation spacer is usually the cause, but distorted carb bodies from over tightening is also a common cause, which can be checked on a cold engine of course.

In your case there is an outside chance the engine “conked out” due to overheating with the throttle wide open, which led to the starting issues you described, and probably no piston seizure.

The throttle would indeed have been wide open, trying to get to the top of the hill.
No seizure would be a good outcome, but the only way I’ll actually know for sure is by taking a look inside.
I’ve got a number of things to check first before any drastic exploratory surgery though. Firstly checking fuel flow, as TT suggests.
Just out of curiosity, would it normally be necessary to drop down into 3rd for a steady 2 mile climb? I wouldn’t have said that it was mega steep, and 5 minutes earlier it had pulled nicely in 4th up a steeper, but shorter hill.
In my head, it is starting to point towards a weakening of the mixture caused by a vacuum in the tank, hence running fine until the vacuum becomes too great to allow sufficient fuel for a correct mix.
I might try to test this theory by finding some hills and once it starts struggling undo the fuel cap, see what occurs. Of course it might result in a long walk home.
Thanks as always to all the heads on here.

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Online KiwiGF

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Re: Possible seizure!!!
« Reply #26 on: 17.04. 2022 23:54 »
Hey Swarfy
Re the throttle, I’d put a new throttle cable on that same morning but there’d been no sign of sticking. Would the excessive heat from the engine maybe alter the fit of the slide in the body causing it to stick?

Slides sticking “up” when the engine is hot is very common (particularly with A65’s). That is behind my “reply no 4”. Giving the carb a tap can result in an audible click as they drop down. A missing or ineffective insulation spacer is usually the cause, but distorted carb bodies from over tightening is also a common cause, which can be checked on a cold engine of course.

In your case there is an outside chance the engine “conked out” due to overheating with the throttle wide open, which led to the starting issues you described, and probably no piston seizure.

The throttle would indeed have been wide open, trying to get to the top of the hill.
No seizure would be a good outcome, but the only way I’ll actually know for sure is by taking a look inside.
I’ve got a number of things to check first before any drastic exploratory surgery though. Firstly checking fuel flow, as TT suggests.
Just out of curiosity, would it normally be necessary to drop down into 3rd for a steady 2 mile climb? I wouldn’t have said that it was mega steep, and 5 minutes earlier it had pulled nicely in 4th up a steeper, but shorter hill.
In my head, it is starting to point towards a weakening of the mixture caused by a vacuum in the tank, hence running fine until the vacuum becomes too great to allow sufficient fuel for a correct mix.
I might try to test this theory by finding some hills and once it starts struggling undo the fuel cap, see what occurs. Of course it might result in a long walk home.
Thanks as always to all the heads on here.

In my experience a vacuum in the tank (due to vent blockage) taking so long to show up on a ride would be unlikely. Having blocked the vent on my fuel cap by taping my rally instructions (inside an A4 plastic bag) over the cap, I came to a halt with dead engine within minutes, and after waiting awhile and starting off again, again I came to a halt within minutes (1/2 mile). That’s when the “light bulb” finally came on...... *problem* *problem* *problem*
New Zealand

1956 A10 Golden Flash  (1st finished project)
1949 B31 rigid “400cc”  (2nd finished project)
1968 B44 Victor Special (3rd finished project)
2001 GL1800 Goldwing, well, the wife likes it
2009 KTM 990 Adventure, cos it’s 100% nuts

Online sean

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Re: Possible seizure!!!
« Reply #27 on: 17.04. 2022 23:57 »
I would use a bore scope before I pulled the head off believe amazon has one that connects to a cell phone.....good luck.....

Offline Jules

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Re: Possible seizure!!!
« Reply #28 on: 18.04. 2022 07:58 »
I agree with all the above Minto, if it aint broke, dont fix it, if its running well without smoke and noise, leave the engine alone, but do check all the peripherals, oil, fuel and spark timing. My "feeling" is similar to yours wrt the vacuum in the tank, not a blocked vent perse' just restricted such that a long haul uphill with a wide throttle (high continuous fuel demand) will definitely lean it out and heat up the engine....whether that has caused long term damage wrt the pistons and bores is something to consider later IMHO...was it pinging (detonation) when overheating??

Offline Minto

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Re: Possible seizure!!!
« Reply #29 on: 18.04. 2022 09:32 »
Hey Sean
Yeah, I’ve been after an excuse to get one of those gadgets for ages, I think this might be it.
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