Poppy's 1949 Bitsa - Electrics - starting from scratch...?

[Big_Ben]

Hello to you all

Apologies for taking up so much bandwidth, it'll get better I promise.

So, numbers confirm my A7 as a 1949 engine and plunger frame and it should have an E3H dynamo, but doesn't.

Oh, and E3H dynamos seem to be made of rocking horse poop and be twice as costly.

There IS a magneto, and the bike supposedly starts, but not yet for me.

There is no dynamo or any other electrics, no loom, rectifier, regulator, lights etc etc. Nada, zero, zilch.

The bike is not going to be a trailer queen, but probably won't do much if any long distances (although, you never know).

So, effectively I have a blank canvas albeit I don't want to throw unnecessary money around.

I love nice safe bright (LED) lights, so they're right up there on my list.

So at the risk or starting fights, what would you do?

6V? 12V? Thorspark electronic ignition? Find a dynamo? Fit one of the French alternators?

Cheers, Poppy

PS: Anyone got an E3H dynamo or other 'leccy bits they want to sell me? 

PPS: Again, sorry for the bandwidth, but I'm sick and bored and the internet is working! 

[trevinoz]

I've got a couple of those E3H generators on the shelf but nobody seems to want them. Probably enough parts to build several more but I won't bother.
E3L is a better bet as it has a higher output.
I'm in Australia so it is not worth getting one from me, postage would make it uneconomical.
Also plenty of E3L generators on the shelf.

[Big_Ben]

IF going with a standard dynamo is the eventual decision, can anyone advise which ones would fit apart from the E3H?

[chaterlea25]

Hi Poppy
The E3L was fitted to the later BSA's and should fit the long stroke
They come with different drive end shafts, You need one with the tapered end
like these
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=BSA+A10+dynamo&_sacat=0

Then get a DVR2 regulator which will give you 12 volts if you wish
Opting for a negative earth version may give you a better choice if you are going for non standard headlamp and LED's

John

[Swarfcut]

 When searching for front engine plates, the right hand side is the same for all Longstroke years. The early left one has a dome to suit the shorter E3H. E3L dynamo has a longer body and requires an engine plate with a hole, as on the later engines. Both plates are unique to the Longstroke crankcase profile.

 Dynamo strap and clamp are the same as later bikes, strap and clamp mounting pins are not......lengths differ from later engines. Threads are 1/4" BSW.

 To be honest I'd be more concerned with getting a runner than musing on the choice of luxuries, but hey ho any progress is a bonus. Engine can be run without the dynamo drive chain...it should not blow oil everywhere as the chain compartment is isolated from the rest of the crankcase. (Famous last words)

 Swarfy.

[Rex]

Yep, I think I'd concentrate more on the Mag to achieve a running engine first. Charging system can wait, and in the meantime something you need may show up on Ebay or whatever.
I've had a Thorspark but I still prefer a proper reconn'd mag personally. Tried and trusted technology.

[BSA_54A10]

Same as Rex & Swarfy
Forget the dynamo for now
Go 12 V the 6V led headlamps are rubbish
Try for one like the new Double Dipper that has 4 CREE ( 3V LED panels ) they give out the best light I have seen on a motorcycle
With one of the aflore metioned headlamps + a LED stop tail + instrument light you will get about 20 headlamp on hours out of a small 12 V battery .
So spend your money on the magneto, get it overhauled with new bearings , prushes & a ceramic capicitor & your grandkids will still be riding it should we not blow ourselves into oblivion or choke on our own pollution.
Find an original switch, pull it apart, replace the ball bearing and fit a new spring so it is really hard to turn.
This will mean it has good electrical contact & you would go down the road flashing your headlamp at passers by
FWIW I fitted an original light switch with a Park, low & high  position
I wired it up to a dip switch on the handlebars so I have ;-
a tail lamp only , so if the battery is very flat people behind can see me
Tail & pilot light for daytime running where lamps on is required
Head & tail lamp via the dip switch .
And if you want to go one petter you can slip a relay inside the headlamp shell hooked up to the headlight with the Low on 85 & the high on 85a so bad connections in the handlebar switch does not create a high load situation& drian the battery .

[Big_Ben]

Thanks all. Much appreciated.

And, yes, bike priority is to get the beast running.

But first, I've got to get me better!

Keep safe,

Poppy

[Big_Ben]

Hello folks,

Just checking, this E3L is the correct fit for a slight upgrade as mentioned above?

Described as: LucasDYNAMO E3 ARA.05-1, 6Volt working, drive anticlockwise.

Many thanks, Poppy

[Swarfcut]

 That looks like the lower output "short" dynamo. So, no, by my reckoning it is mis described in the listing.  At a pinch it would do for an early model, but for anything like serious electrical output, the longer E3L type is a better choice and far more numerous. Upgrade to 12 Volt armature and field coil is easier, these parts are offered new repro from the usual sources.
 
 This unit is also missing the sprocket, nut and specific drive end casting that carries the cork sealing washer to the crankcase inner timing cover. Best left to some other prospector.

 While you're searching, remember armatures come with different drive arrangements. Some are plain, with a keyway, some are gear driven. Your needs to be a a taper shaft. So although the body etc often looks right, it simply won't fit without extra expense and hassle. Better to find a complete example, even a a non working pile of the right bits can be coaxed back to life, ain't that so Mr G?

 Short dynamo only has one field coil retaining screw, longer type has 2 so easy to tell apart. Old Joe Lucas always put a date code on his products. No mystery, look for a numerical month and year stamping....and the model number somewhere under the dirt.

 Swarfy.

 

[groily]

You are right Swarfy.
It is an E3AR, for Matchless / AJS  singles mostly and is NOT a good choice and nor is it a good version of the 3" Lucas genre. I hate playing with them.
The brush end bearing outer race is held in a fragile bakelite cover which makes them horrible to rebuild - and that version was replaced by the much better E3N for the AMC bikes early on, in the '50s. The N had a proper bearing in the brush holder end but is still short and not 'right' for an A.

You can tell a Long dynamo by the fact it has 2 big screws on the body for a larger field coil pole piece as Mr S says - at a glance..

The only thing 'right' about that one is the taper on the armature, maybe!

For a review of the various Lucas 3" dynamos, the Lucas  files are best - you can see some of them here, among other places of course -
http://www.brightsparkmagnetos.com/library/Parts%20lists/Lucas%20motor%20cycle%20parts%201936-57/E01-11,15%20Dynamos%20and%20supersession%20chart.pdf
and for what goes on what bike (up to 1957 at least) you can see the 'Equipment by Machine List' here -
http://www.brightsparkmagnetos.com/library/Parts%20lists/Lucas%20motor%20cycle%20parts%201936-57/A03-34%20Equipment%20specification%20by%20machine.pdf

Bear in mind when sourcing Lucas 3" jobbies that:
Any can run either direction - easy
Any can run Pos or Neg earth - easy
All Long - E3Ls - can run at 12v using original parts, OR have modern replacement armatures and field coils designed to operate at 12v fitted at fair prices. On which, CheeserBeesa is your man, from on here, if you need to talk to someone.

Some Short - E3HM, E3N etc - ones are 'semi-OK' at 12v with LED lights, but I only use them on my own bikes - so it's 'all my fault' if they fry themselves to a crisp. Much better at 6v.  I have one bike running 12v on a shortie with LEDs at the mo, but it's all a wing, a prayer, touching wood with fingers and toes crossed to see what happens next. (Thing is, no-one really WANTS the short jobs unless their bike won't accept the L version, which some singles won't owing to mounting hassles, so I had a few lying around with new guts in which I am gradually abusing my way through!)

Bear in mind also that the BEARING RETAINER plates on the drive ends of dyns differ according to fixture. Beesa twins need the right sort, along with the tapered armature. Magdynamos use another verison, etc etc, but all based on the same Lucas Parts Bin for the main guts. The Parts Lists, however horrible to read, are your friend.

In ALL cases, get a decent Voltage Regulator to minimise risk of chip-pan type fry-ups  . . . the DVR2 job referred to here often remains the best in many folks' opinion including mine.
________________

I think we must assume 'you have made you better' Poppy? Hope so!

[Big_Ben]

Thanks Lovelies,

I am indeed better. Got to say that the 'Rona is NOT fun, tested positive for 15 days and it was a good week on top of that until I felt close to normal.

TBH I'm just grateful it was a later "less bad" variant. My heart goes out to those who got sick from the earlier ones.

Thank you for the in depth information. I will digest it again properly tomorrow and keep searching. I'm not in a hurry (yet) so I can hunt for the ideal and compromise later if time runs out.

I have little doubt I will need to seek out your wisdom again.

Keep safe Poppy

[Guy Wilson]

Hello Poppy, I found the cheapest way to fix my dynamo was not to fix it...remove or disconnect the chain drive.  I have LED front, rear tail and brake light + horn. LED's only work on a negative earth system, so I've no regulator to worry about.. I have a 12 volt battery that I charge about once a month.. I don't do much riding at night, so its not a issue .. I've no idea its legal in the UK to run without a charging system, but here it doesn't matter..
I'd concentrate on getting the mag reliable ..money better spent in my opinion..
Guy

[CheeserBeezer]

I have dynamos on the shelf, at various prices depending on the components used. Preferential rates for forum members and BSAOC members.

[Big_Ben]

Thank you, that is really good to know.

Interesting the idea of a total loss system.

I'll need to think about whether the lack of completeness would niggle my soul!