Author Topic: Drive chain for A7 with ariel hubs question?  (Read 583 times)

Offline Hughsie

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Drive chain for A7 with ariel hubs question?
« on: 13.02. 2022 17:11 »
Hi
I'm looking for a drive chain for my bike, it's a bitsa, but it's an early swing arm style with ariel hubs, frame date 1957
The Reynolds chain suggests a 98 link chain for this year, but im only counting 96 links on the chain I removed 😳
I just wondered if the ariel hubs ran a shorter chain, Do I just stuck to what was on there hoping the previous owner was right.
I've counted it like 3 times lol. 
Thanks in advance.
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Online groily

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Re: Drive chain for A7 with ariel hubs question?
« Reply #1 on: 13.02. 2022 18:48 »
Others will know, but I don't know whether you should be on a 96 or 98.
But regardless of hubs used  . . . much of it depends on the sprockets and on whether you are looking at worn, or unworn, primary and rear chains.
 
First thing I'd do is see how worn the primary chain is and thus how much adjustment there is left on the gearbox, and at the rear wheel.
If using a 96 with the primary nearly worn out and the gearbox therefore right back, then a shorter than 98 (if that's the 'correct' length) rear will have compensated, especially if that is also knackered. Once upon a time, people (not the sort of people on here of course!) would remove a couple of links to get a bit more mileage out of a tired rear  . . .

A 98 might be needed with  a new primary chain 'shortening' things up front though, as it would also with maybe a larger gearbox sprocket if you are by any chance equipped with something a tooth or more smaller.

On some bikes I have had to swap lengths according to the gearbox sprocket changes - or indeed change the length of the primary if swapping crankshaft sprockets. With, again, potential consequent effects on the rear chain length.

Sprocket options are many, so there probably isn't a definitive answer to the Q -  but what you DO want are lengths that are a comfortable fit for both chains, unworn, with the gearbox in a sensible & fairly well-forward position and with the rear wheel near the front of its adjustment. If I got there, I'd be happy regardless of what any book or bar-room expert might have to say on the matter.
Worst case, a cranked link (usually on the primary) - but not unless you have to. Some sprocket combinations make it unavoidable, and some machines of other marques even specified odd-numbers of links for primaries.
Bill

Offline RDfella

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Re: Drive chain for A7 with ariel hubs question?
« Reply #2 on: 13.02. 2022 18:59 »
Agree with everything Groily says - with one exception. Only use a cranked link if you're prepared for it to break (which it will) and the possible damage that ensues.
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Offline Hughsie

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Re: Drive chain for A7 with ariel hubs question?
« Reply #3 on: 13.02. 2022 20:45 »
First thanks to both of you for the detailed reply, these are things I hadn't concidered, and this makes sense.
I've had the engine rebuilt and I had the primary chain replaced, It was worn, I've not actually thought to check the box positioning so again this is something I forgot about
I will use the old chain briefly to size things up using your guides. I will also check the rear sprocket. I was going to replace this anyway.
I was only basing the 98 link chain information from putting in my model to the online store and that's the chain it suggested. But based on how well used the bike was when I started this super fun 6 year project a shortened chain sounds about right 🙃😅😅😅
Very useful information and thanks again
Stirlingshire Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿
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Online KiwiGF

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Re: Drive chain for A7 with ariel hubs question?
« Reply #4 on: 13.02. 2022 20:56 »
First thanks to both of you for the detailed reply, these are things I hadn't concidered, and this makes sense.
I've had the engine rebuilt and I had the primary chain replaced, It was worn, I've not actually thought to check the box positioning so again this is something I forgot about
I will use the old chain briefly to size things up using your guides. I will also check the rear sprocket. I was going to replace this anyway.
I was only basing the 98 link chain information from putting in my model to the online store and that's the chain it suggested. But based on how well used the bike was when I started this super fun 6 year project a shortened chain sounds about right 🙃😅😅😅
Very useful information and thanks again

I don’t think I have ever bought a chain of the correct length, I just buy (say) a 110 link chain and make it fit. Its also often cheaper doing that. Modern chains can be tricky to shorten as the pins are VERY tight in the links, but an angle grinder can be used (carefully) to remove surplus links/plates if you don't have a chain splitter.

With o ring chains you have to be careful not to get the chain too hot when grinding and cause damage to the o rings.

I am sure others will have advice on shortening chains!
New Zealand

1956 A10 Golden Flash  (1st finished project)
1949 B31 rigid “400cc”  (2nd finished project)
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Offline BagONails

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Re: Drive chain for A7 with ariel hubs question?
« Reply #5 on: 14.02. 2022 00:53 »
Yes that's what I did when I set mine up with new primary chain/sprockets/chainwheel and final drive gearbox sprocket / new chain and rear sprocket. Set the gearbox up close to the engine with 75% unused adjustment, then bought a standard length DID chain ( about $28 on spesh from the MxStore online here in Aus) and fitted that with the rear wheel right forward. Standard weight chain is also plenty strong enough on these bikes and allows more clearance too.

I shortened the chain easily by grinding the heads of the pins just overflush with the side plates such that the cheap chineseum chain breaker could easily manage to do the job. Had a bit of a moment when I thought I'd taken too much out but after allowing a relax on the gearbox it was possible to fit the joining link.  Once the chain was fitted the adjustment of both primary and final drive was a doddle.

Just be aware that the pull on the final drive under acceleration will always tend to pull the gearbox backwards and over tension the primary drive chain unless you've backed the adjuster up against the nut to resist this movement, the clamping nut will not hold it on its own!  There is a thread on here somewhere that you could find with a search but that is the main thing to remember if you were not already aware of course. *smile* 
Ian
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Re: Drive chain for A7 with ariel hubs question?
« Reply #6 on: 14.02. 2022 07:03 »
I do  agree with you on half links RD - but here be selected examples of the hassle with certain machines of another marque (AMC - from the factory manuals)  . . .!

Chain lengths
Front—350 Single 67 links
500 Single 69 links
500 Twin 67 links


Rear
500 Twins
97 links

Never followed the 'book' for rears - by going up a tooth always on the 'boxes - but have had to on some primaries where shock absorber type crank sprocket options aren't easily available . . .
Bill

Offline muskrat

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Re: Drive chain for A7 with ariel hubs question?
« Reply #7 on: 14.02. 2022 11:31 »
G'day  Fellas.
Avoid 1/2 links like Covid. My old 1969 Montesa  GPMX 360 ate chains but 1/2 links gave me 15 minutes more riding *eek*and ate a hole in the case.
Only use std chain on our old bangers. Never had one stretch enough to use 1/2 links. Even on the Cafe
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS racer now a A10CR, '78 XT500, '83 CB1100F, 88 HD FXST, 2000 CBR929RR ex Honda Australia Superbike .
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