Author Topic: Musky's Plunger rebuild.  (Read 7512 times)

Offline Caretaker

  • Making things work !
  • Administrator
  • Valued Contributor
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2006
  • Posts: 479
  • Karma: 30
Re: Musky's Plunger rebuild.
« Reply #45 on: 15.02. 2022 20:28 »
Hi, great topic in the making *wink2*, one question, any reason for keeping it in the 'sheltered' Member's Chat?
Diminishes the audience quite drastically > hidden from guest visitors (many) \ members not logged in \ members with few post (5 posts needed for Member's board access).
"Sometimes I say things that are so highly intelligent that I do not understand a word of it"

Online muskrat

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • **
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 11046
  • Karma: 132
  • Lithgow NSW Oz
    • Shoalhaven Classic Motorcycle Club Inc
Re: Musky's Plunger rebuild.
« Reply #46 on: 16.02. 2022 19:38 »
G'day E.
I'll move it over to A7 & A10 Engine. Yes the world should know om my antics.

G'day Fellas.
I washed the cases last night with CLR. Didn't do a bad job. I found the date stamp, it's 6 months younger than the old cases. The pick up tube is missing and a few of the primary screw holes need attention. All the other threads are in good condition. The tube and missing studs will be swapped over from the old cases. Tonight I'll remove the cam & idler bushes and measure up the timing side bush hole incase I have to make an oversize OD.
Question time. Does anyone have the dimensions to convert the drive side to a seal from a slinger and same for the primary/mainshaft seal?
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS racer now a A10CR, '78 XT500, '83 CB1100F, 88 HD FXST, 2000 CBR929RR ex Honda Australia Superbike .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Online muskrat

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • **
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 11046
  • Karma: 132
  • Lithgow NSW Oz
    • Shoalhaven Classic Motorcycle Club Inc
Re: Musky's Plunger rebuild.
« Reply #47 on: 16.02. 2022 19:39 »
Nerd box froze.
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS racer now a A10CR, '78 XT500, '83 CB1100F, 88 HD FXST, 2000 CBR929RR ex Honda Australia Superbike .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Online trevinoz

  • Newcastle, N.S.W. Australia.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2006
  • Posts: 3234
  • Karma: 71
Re: Musky's Plunger rebuild.
« Reply #48 on: 16.02. 2022 20:58 »
Musky, if you put a seal into the crankcase you should use the splined sleeve which goes with it. It has a wider face to register with the seal.

Offline Swarfcut

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2018
  • Posts: 2379
  • Karma: 57
Re: Musky's Plunger rebuild.
« Reply #49 on: 17.02. 2022 08:59 »
G'day Musky.

 Look to be a pretty good set. Reviewed my earlier cautionary post, the lowdown hole is the mounting for the missing pick up pipe.

 When it comes to oilseals in general, like bearings, there are standard sizes which manufacturers will choose to achieve economies of scale. So, in the case of the mainshaft seal,  the Oilseal size is defined by intended shaft diameter, hole size in the casting and finally the width of seal required to match the thickness of the casting. Any bearing supplier list should give a cross reference to commercially available substitutes for the real thing from these dimensions. Seals come in Metric and Imperial sizes, and also differ in the lip profile type and intended direction of shaft rotation. Most are a steel pressing, with the seal material moulded on.

  But as always, there are exceptions, peculiar to makes and models. The original mainshaft seal looked like a resin impregnated fabric cup.

    Crank seal is probably a special too, but along with the unique gearbox sprocket seal, widely available.

  Hole on a handy seal type crankcase is 55.5mm/ 2 3/16". To add to Trev's know how, yes the slinger type drive sleeve is too big, at 46mm/ 1 13/16". This should closely match the crank hole in these slinger cases. Drive sleeve for seal type is smooth edged to run on the seal, and slightly smaller at 43mm/  1 11/16".  All dimensions taken from used parts to hand, measured with caliper and eye.

 For those folks running early cases and oil entering the primary, worth checking your bitza has the correct drive sleeve.

  An extra note for all you Plunger builders.   Pay close attention to the integrity of the pick up pipe and its seal into the crankcase. I had one split at the right angle weld where it fits the case.....no scavenge, oil everywhere....fault took some finding and of course the whole motor is built around this pesky li'l bugger. The ball valve always seems to have very limited lift on these early models so a good clean out of carbonised oil is a must.

 Cheers.

 Swarfy.

Online muskrat

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • **
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 11046
  • Karma: 132
  • Lithgow NSW Oz
    • Shoalhaven Classic Motorcycle Club Inc
Re: Musky's Plunger rebuild.
« Reply #50 on: 17.02. 2022 09:47 »
G'day Trev.
Thanks M8. Just another part to hunt for.

G'day Swarfy.
I have two good bearing/seal shops close by. I'll annoy them.
Wondering if I can turn down the plunger one to match a seal?

Been quite a while since I visited the bottom end of the plunger. It's starting to come back yo me now.
I've joined another group, "The Sons Of Alzheimers"
 Cheers

'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS racer now a A10CR, '78 XT500, '83 CB1100F, 88 HD FXST, 2000 CBR929RR ex Honda Australia Superbike .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline Greybeard

  • Jack of all trades; master of none.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2011
  • Posts: 9982
  • Karma: 50
Re: Musky's Plunger rebuild.
« Reply #51 on: 17.02. 2022 10:36 »
Oilseal size for gearbox mainshaft is defined by intended shaft diameter,.... Etc.
Wow, a post full of vital information for Plunger owners. Thank you Swarfy 👍 This forum is a great resource for owners.
Greybeard (Neil)
2023 Gold Star
Supporter of THE DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDE https://www.gentlemansride.com

Warwickshire UK


A Distinguished Gentleman Riding his 1955 Plunger Golden Flash

Offline RichardL

  • Outside Chicago, IL
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2007
  • Posts: 6483
  • Karma: 55
Re: Musky's Plunger rebuild.
« Reply #52 on: 17.02. 2022 12:43 »
This forum is a great resource for owners.

Glad you've finally realIzed this, GB.  *whistle* >:D *welcome* *smile*

Richard L.

Online trevinoz

  • Newcastle, N.S.W. Australia.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2006
  • Posts: 3234
  • Karma: 71
Re: Musky's Plunger rebuild.
« Reply #53 on: 17.02. 2022 20:24 »
Musky, I am pretty sure that the diameters are the same only the width varies. And again I think that the same seal as the swinging arm case is used.
Russ had a case machined in the not too distant past.

Online trevinoz

  • Newcastle, N.S.W. Australia.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2006
  • Posts: 3234
  • Karma: 71
Re: Musky's Plunger rebuild.
« Reply #54 on: 19.02. 2022 22:53 »
I spoke to Russ about the splined sleeve. Swarfy is correct on the diameter of the seal type sleeve at 1 11/16". The other is 1 13/16".

Online muskrat

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • **
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 11046
  • Karma: 132
  • Lithgow NSW Oz
    • Shoalhaven Classic Motorcycle Club Inc
Re: Musky's Plunger rebuild.
« Reply #55 on: 21.02. 2022 19:43 »
G'day Fellas.
My first part arrived today.
Looks too good to hide in a motor  *smile*
From De Groot only took 2 weeks from NL
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS racer now a A10CR, '78 XT500, '83 CB1100F, 88 HD FXST, 2000 CBR929RR ex Honda Australia Superbike .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Online berger

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2017
  • Posts: 3218
  • Karma: 22
  • keith.uk 500sscafe.norbsa JDM honda 750fz
Re: Musky's Plunger rebuild.
« Reply #56 on: 21.02. 2022 20:36 »
musky did you get the nice prv to go with it?

Online muskrat

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • **
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 11046
  • Karma: 132
  • Lithgow NSW Oz
    • Shoalhaven Classic Motorcycle Club Inc
Re: Musky's Plunger rebuild.
« Reply #57 on: 21.02. 2022 20:56 »
G'day bergs.
Not yet but it's on the list.
I pulled all the bushes out of the "new" case and measured the holes. All good even the main hole so now can order all the bushes and bearing.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS racer now a A10CR, '78 XT500, '83 CB1100F, 88 HD FXST, 2000 CBR929RR ex Honda Australia Superbike .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Online berger

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Nov 2017
  • Posts: 3218
  • Karma: 22
  • keith.uk 500sscafe.norbsa JDM honda 750fz
Re: Musky's Plunger rebuild.
« Reply #58 on: 21.02. 2022 21:39 »
Musky be careful with the camshaft and idler bushes the engineer who did all the line boring on mine told me the bushes i had bought were no good because they slid onto the cam and he had to make all new ones. he said there's loads being sold that are no good. even when they squeeze up a bit in the case he said they are hit and miss when on the bearing surfaces of the cam etc.

Online muskrat

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • **
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 11046
  • Karma: 132
  • Lithgow NSW Oz
    • Shoalhaven Classic Motorcycle Club Inc
Re: Musky's Plunger rebuild.
« Reply #59 on: 22.02. 2022 10:54 »
Thanks bergs.
I was looking to get SRM stuff, not because it's double the price ($50 each) but hopefully double the quality  *dunno2*
I could make my own but the right material is expensive.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS racer now a A10CR, '78 XT500, '83 CB1100F, 88 HD FXST, 2000 CBR929RR ex Honda Australia Superbike .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7