Small vintage lathes

[groily]

Slight change of direction but still on topic . .

Anyone know what this is, or who made it even? Think, from the bloke who gave it to me last night, that it might have come off a boat.
Round bed, headstock thread 3/4 x 10 tpi, quite chunky in some respects, cross slide operates from handwheel at rear and although nothing carries any markings ref the gears, dials etc, probably Imperial. The controls are all man sized for a small weapon, and quite impressively unworn.
Have only had an hour or two this am to start cleaning it up, but it's surprising me now umpteen years of sawdust and chicken shit have been scraped off and the main parts greased and oiled.  I suppose it's about 4 feet long, belt and pulleys, three ratios, not sure of much else yet. But would like to know more if any of you guys can tell me!?

Not sure what I'm going to do with it either, but there are good homes among various mates if I decide to pass it along. Came with a decent motor that allegedly 'works' but haven't tried yet. About 1/2 - 3/4 HP at a guess, single phase, without scraping any label clean  . . .

[chaterlea25]

Hi Groily,
It looks like a round bed "Drummond" from your pics?

John

[RichardL]

I saw this: https://www.adverts.ie/power-tools/vintage-lathe/14800438

[groily]

Thanks a lot John, and you too Richard L, I think it probably is a Drummond or derivative having spent an hour searching around - but with the maker's label missing. (Unless there were copycat things from others of course.) If so, it's done really well to be in the state it is, as it is getting on a bit I'd think.

The carriage drive by the big handwheel at the tailstock end is really smooth, as are the tailstock itself, and the cross slide, but there's no top slide. Maybe there are bits that could be got, not sure given height issues.
The tool post on it can go on on any of three faces, and I think a milling slide would have been an option.
With some mods / add-ons I think it could be a practical tool for doing quite a lot of things, but lack of a topslide is a drawback obviously.
 
Anyway, I'm going to have a bit of fun playing, as we do  . . . . Never look a gift horse in the mouth - as none of us ever does!

[Greybeard]

This FaceAche group might be useful.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/703113663087249/?ref=share

[groily]

Thanks GB  . . . I'm not a face-acher myself (probably more of an a**e ache), but useful stuff!
I discover that there were clones of these things, some made in Australia where one of the Drummond brothers spent some time. But this new freebie is completely anonymous as far as I have been able to scrape and wipe so far.

[RichardL]

Were you teasing a weak mind regarding the number of graduations?

No teasing. I just wondered about the relationship of the 100 points per revolution index to the marks on the scale. What movement value do the scale graduations represent?

Update: It would appear that your old scale has 100 graduations. Congraduations!


How did you make the scale indents; a sharp tool mounted in the lathe tool holder moved across the metal? Did you make a stop to ensure the cuts all started/ended in line with each other?

Are you going to buy/borrow a set of tiny number punches?

I am intending to find an elegant method of attaching digital calipers, (with the jaws removed) to my lathe. It seems to be a poor man's DRO.

Have you made it possible to zero the scale?

So many questions!

Now I've had a good look at the scales on my slides, I see they have 80 divisions. I'd need an index divisible by 80

Posting some pictures here to answer some of the questions.

In the first picture you see the engraving process about to start, with me figuring out abut how long I wanted the 10s lines to be. Nothing precise, just what looked good to me.
In the second picture you see the process mostly complete on the first attempt, with spacing that became irregular for about 30% for the lines. Somethin' slipped.
In the third picture you see the home brew stop and the 30 deg. profile of the engraving bit. (White paper in background to better see the cutting tool.)

In your case, I would be tempted to turn a ring with the O.D. of the dial disk and cross-section about 1/4" x 1/4". Engrave that with the 80 lines, then, drill it, tap it and screw the disk to it. Not sure how hard or expensive it will be to get an 80 tooth saw blade in the UK. Here, it would be around the corner and under $10.  Another method is to scale print a graticule that wraps around your chuck (hopefully, that's not a pet name) and indexes on those marks.

Richard L.

[Greybeard]

Thanks Richard. It's a shame your marks got out of sync.

An 80 tooth blade is readily available here. I may already have one under the bench.

[RichardL]

Since I had no specific diameter to hold, I just turned the bad one down and engraved a good one in its place (but for one line the wrong length  . )

Richard L.

[Greybeard]

Since I had no specific diameter to hold, I just turned the bad one down and engraved a good one in its place (but for one line the wrong length  . )

I had to read that several times before I understood it. Half my attention is on the TV; sorry.

[groily]

Just to follow up, the tool I got given is indeed a Drummond round bed (long bed version) and is up and running - and is in extraordinarily good condition. Found a serial number stamped in the headstock area, which according to info unearthed, says 'between 1926 and 1928'. Towards the latter end of that period from the number, I'd say. A 4" tool, or 8" swing for them as measures that way.

However, it is cack-handed at the tail end and the lack of:

*backgear
*topslide
*reverse (which I might address)

all make it a bit of an ergonomic operating challenge. Definitely not something yer average person needing functionality would want to spend too much on, however pretty it might be.

That said, the carriage rotates around the bed with generous arc of movement both ways, the cross slide (sitting 'square to the carriage' in the pic) swivels 360°, making light milling a cinch compared to most small tools (in theory - haven't tried!), the toolpost is chunky and everything is very smooth. The change wheels are very solid, easy to play with using stout pins to pair them up (not keys) and there's even a metric option in the set I've got.
The cylindrical beds were ground to within a thou, so they say - and a test bar shows head and bum are aligned pretty much perfectly. Carriage goes end-to-end with the smoothest imaginable completely play-free motion, but locking things in position needs spanners for the most part.  Only 1MT on tailstock, so made a blank and fitted a cheapo drill chuck just to have something, rotating centre next (maybe), made a chuck key and generally amused myself for a day or two.
Thread-cutting at a min rpm of 120 would be challenging I think compared to a back geared tool, as is the fact it's a big s t r e t c h to get to the carriage hand-wheel on the tail end when doing things in the toolpost and chuck area. OK with the leadscrew engaged for simple turning though.

Anyway, FWI not W, a pic of it in running order.
Not sure what to do with it, but a nice genuine period piece and maybe just a nice thing to keep. Probably the only truly 'vintage' thing in the shed in fact!

[Greybeard]

It's amazing that these old machines survive so well.

I needed a live centre so made my own after seeing a video on YT, (https://youtu.be/L0ZTw5J8oTE). I bought one of these:
1MT SOFT STUB ARBOR 1 MORSE TAPER 25MM X 30MM DIAMETER. Cost £7.94 on eBay. Free postage.

In the video he is working on a MT2 taper arbor. Because my lathe has a number 1 morse taper I scaled the centre shaft down from 8mm to 6mm.

I drilled and bored out the big end of the arbor to firmly fit a 19mm x 6mm x 6mm SKF sealed bearing. I drilled through to the existing 6mm thread at the other end. I cut and pointed a length of Silver Steel. I drilled a shallow dimple in the end, for a small bearing ball which is supported by a locked screw, that also has a dimple for the ball, in the narrow end of the arbor .
I hardened and tempered the silver steel but I'm not sure that was neccessary. The spindle closely fits the bearing. It was fun to make and does the job well.

[groily]

Very nice job GB. People pay good money for far worse probably!
If I can motivate myself, I'll do similar  . . . . I'll knock out another taper as well, as I have examples I can copy (makes it so much easier) and a big box of mild steel bar sitting waiting for something to happen  . . . .

[Greybeard]

I have been feeling the need of a Tap Follower so I made one.

I do not have a Tap and die pair large enough to thread the end cap into the 13mm bore so I drilled and tapped 3mm and put a ickle screw right through.

The banana shaped spring came from the gearbox of my Golden Flash. It was the only suitable spring I could find in my shed. The curvature doesn't seem to hinder the operation of my device.

The device can be used with my lathe or the pillar drill.

[RichardL]

GB,

Very nice in both cases. I might now be sorry my lathe came with a live center and deprives me the pleasure of copying you. Although, I could use one with a much wider and flatter cone.

Regarding the tap follower, I'm not familiar with that term, but I take it the purpose is to push on a tap to keep it centered while getting it started into a workpiece that is either on the lathe or a drill press. Correct?

Did I mention, Nice Work!

Richard L.