if you don't learn from history you are doomed to repeat it

[Greybeard]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1842_retreat_from_Kabul

[berger]

i watched a program about afgan and how nobody has won, i could now go on a rant about the political elite but i wont because i've already had one heart attack

[Rex]

Tony Blair wanted a Thatcher Falklands style note in the history books. He got that alright, but not in the way he hoped.

[Topdad]

Afghanistan, graveyard of so many politicians reputations but more importantly actual graves of to many good men and women  for nowt!!

[BSA_54A10]

There was a reporter doing a bit on the general intervention in the middle east by the USA and he summed it up neatly with the like
"There are generals who honestly believe that if you drop enough bombs on a country , miracialiously a stable liberal democracy will pop up from the ruins .
According to his report 14,000 Afghan regular troops & 8,000 Afghan civilians were killed last year and around 5 times that number wounded seriously enough to need hospital treatment

[Joolstacho]

...Not to mention Iraq...

[Black Sheep]

If you want a bit of education on Afghanistan, read Flashman by George McDonald Frazer. Or how the Brits were the first to try and fail there.

[BSARGS650]

I am amazed that a rag tag and bobtail army with battered white Toyota pick ups and some guns mounted over the cab defeated two super powers. Now they have 85 million dollars of sophisticated arms left behind for free, some which were deactivated and possibly repaired.  Afghanistan is a very complex country of regions controlled by war lords often fighting each other, different cultures and interests.  Farming; I hardly think so despite foreign money, the profit is drugs. Corrupt western backed Afghan government did nothing for the country.  Mind, there is great profit for perpetual war, Russia and China next?

[Greybeard]

I am amazed that a rag tag and bobtail army with battered white Toyota pick ups and some guns mounted over the cab defeated two super powers. Now they have 85 million dollars of sophisticated arms left behind for free, some which were deactivated and possibly repaired.  Afghanistan is a very complex country of regions controlled by war lords often fighting each other, different cultures and interests.  Farming; I hardly think so despite foreign money, the profit is drugs. Corrupt western backed Afghan government did nothing for the country.  Mind, there is great profit for perpetual war, Russia and China next?

Guerrilla warfare is impossible to combat; remember Vietnam?

[BSARGS650]

I remember Vietnam very well. The lies spouted of what was really going on, the 3 million dead, agent orange still causing birth defects today, the treatment of the vets used as pawns in just another proxy West vs East war....Communism, reds under your bed and much more.....Unfortunately for the victims and destruction of far away countries, the power struggles of perpetual war is profitable.

[Joolstacho]

Yup, and all along the way the weapons manufacturers laugh all the way to the bank.

[BSA_54A10]

I am amazed that a rag tag and bobtail army with battered white Toyota pick ups and some guns mounted over the cab defeated two super powers. Now they have 85 million dollars of sophisticated arms left behind for free, some which were deactivated and possibly repaired.  Afghanistan is a very complex country of regions controlled by war lords often fighting each other, different cultures and interests.  Farming; I hardly think so despite foreign money, the profit is drugs. Corrupt western backed Afghan government did nothing for the country.  Mind, there is great profit for perpetual war, Russia and China next?

Prior to the US arming the gurellas with modern weapons they were defeating the Russians using  WW I and home made rifles.
We tend to forget that the USA armed the mujahideen with modern weapons to fight the Russians and trained them how to use the to the best effect .
The Afghan regulars could only keep them subdued with the support of US air power.
So when the air power was withdrawn the regulars had no chance and they knew it 
Had the US trained the locals to fly the helicopters and support aircraft then things would have been totally different but the locals were used basically as cannon fodder.
There their is moral
The Taliban fighters were fighting for a cause they were very happy to die for
The Afghan regulars were mostly there because it was the only paying job they could get
Then there is the question of corruption withing the chain of command and from what I have heard the Afghan regulars were much like the British army up to WW I.
All of the officers were there because of who they were related to and not because they had military skills .
Then finally the people saw little difference on the ground.
Much like Iran under the Shar , once you got 1/2 mile pas the city boundry there was noting. 'No police, no electricity , no water , no sanitation , no jobs , no healthcare, no schools and no protection from the Taliban ( or any other militants )  so basically nothing changed since the the days of the British Imperial rule .
Part of the deal between President Trump & the Taliban was the early closure of the Bagrahm air base so there would be little to stop exactly what we saw happen.

[Rex]

So when the air power was withdrawn the regulars had no chance and they knew it 
Had the US trained the locals to fly the helicopters and support aircraft then things would have been totally different

They did train them to fly the various aircraft. Why do think so many fully operational Black Hawks etc were "available" for the Taliban to grab when they strolled into Kabul?

[BSA_54A10]

They did train them to fly the various aircraft. Why do think so many fully operational Black Hawks etc were "available" for the Taliban to grab when they strolled into Kabul?

I will check up on that
AFAIK there was no Afghan airforce and there is a lot of footage of Taliban sitting in balckhawks but none of them being flown
I would imagine that the US troops put a handfull of sand into every oil tank before they left so they won't fly for long if they were operational .
I have certainly never seen or heard of any local Afghan pilots and every foo-par reported was things like the US helicopters accidentially blowing a wedding party to bits, not the sort of thing you would take the blame for if the locals were at the controls .

[Joolstacho]

Interesting eh? Drones seem to be the weapon of choice nowadays don't they.
Very low technical resources and pretty basic knowledge and facilities required to build them. Airframes -easy, power systems you can buy online. The guidance systems maybe a little more difficult for long range, but not insurmountable at all. Weapons delivery systems not quite so easy but... Watch out!
(Hey I'm a pacifist!)