Author Topic: A post about Changes to motor fuel I found on FB  (Read 891 times)

Offline Greybeard

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Daniel Hopkins posted this on FaceAche group 'British Motorcycles Pre '87'.

Motor fuel supplied to the public has traditionally been manufactured by extracting the hydrocarbon molecule octane from crude oil by fractional distillation (‘cracking’).  Pure octane is a flammable straw coloured liquid.  It is less dense than water (0.7gm/ml) and has a flash point of 13 degrees centigrade which is sufficiently high to make it safe to handle.  It has been used as the fuel of choice for spark ignition internal combustion engines since the end of the 19th century.
Octane burns most efficiently if mixed with atmosperic air at a ratio of 14:1, the so-called ‘stochiometric mixture’.  The purpose of a carburettor is to acheive this mix at a range of operating speeds.
All pump fuels are a mixture of chemicals.  For the fractional distillation process to be economic, there is an inevitable overlap with molecules with larger and smaller numbers of carbon atoms, certainly C6 throught to C12.  This variability had led to fuel being described by a number, for example ’87 Octane’.  The number refers to the pressure at which the fuel will self ignite without a spark.  The higher the number, the higher the pressure.  Since fuel is compressed in an internal combustion engine, it follows that a high compression motor will require a higher octane number to operate safely.  High octane numbers have no effect on power output.
Recently there has been pressure on governments and fuel suppliers to alter the mix of pump fuels for a variey of reasons connected to cost and environmental issues.
The most common change has been to mandate the addition of alcohol (ethanol and some methanol) to the fuel mixture.  Typically this has been between 5% and 10% by volume.  Ethanol is a naturally ocurring organic solvent with a flash point of 12.7 degrees centigrade.  It is less dense than water at 0.79gm/ml.  By comparing the numbers for octane, it is easy to see why ethanol is attractive to fuel suppliers in that it’s storage and handling characteristics are broadly similar.

The physical and chemical effects of ethanol.
Ethanol is hygroscopic (absorbs water directly from the atmoshphere) and readily evaporates if stored in an open container.  ‘Open containers’ include many motorcycle petrol tanks and all carburettors. 
To quote Christensen & McCormick, “Loss of fuel quality by weathering occurs in conjunction with water uptake resulting in undesirable property changes prior to the onset of phase separation. Water uptake of an ethanol blend during storage in a humid environment can result in phase separation; however, if fuel is stored long enough for phase separation to occur the fuel was likely also unfit for purpose because of reduction in vapor pressure and other undesirable changes to fuel properties before phase separation was observed.”
What this means is that if you leave your fuel in an open container it will attract water which will then separate out and cause corrosion.  At the same time, the fuel volatility (ability to start the engine) will rapidly degrade.  We’ve all heard the term ‘stale petrol’ but this is much worse.
Christensen goes on to say “Fuel tank manufacturers recommend emptying the tank if equipment is to be stored as long as 3 months. These experiments have shown that this practice is needed to prevent loss of fuel quality from hydrocarbon weathering as well as to safeguard against phase separation due to water uptake.”

To summarise; Motor fuel containing ethanol stored in open containers will
rapidly become less volatile
attract water which will collect in the tank and carburettor

The chemical effects of ethanol fuel mixtures will vary depending on the percentage mix.  Ethanol is a smaller molecule with an oxygen atom included so it’s burning characteristics in air are different. In a study in 2014 it was found that the “Low stoichiometric ratio of ethanol causes the stoichiometric ratio to decrease with increasing ethanol in fuel. In cases where amount of fuel sprayed in the fuel system by an adjustment is not increased, ethanol increase causes fuel mixture to become leaner.” 
Additionally, it was found that the “High octane number and heat of evaporation of ethanol also improve knock resistance of engine. Using this feature, which increases the knock resistance, in some studies where the ignition advance and compression ratio of the spark ignition (SI) engines are increased, significant improvements in performance values such as efficiency and power have been achieved.”
In another study it was found that “In comparison to the pure gasoline, adding ethanol increased sensitivity to the spark energy. The good burn showed a fast flame growth and larger flame radius. While the poor combustion revealed a long-narrow flame shape and inferior development of the flame radius. Also, the E85 and E100 demonstrated a moderate natural luminosity or nearly transparent-like appearance.”

To summarise;  The burning characteristics of ethanol mixtures will
Require more fuel for the same power output, the stochiometric ratio changes
Increase anti-knock qualities but only if the fuel is fresh
Increase sensitivity to ignition system efficiency and timing accuracy

The characterstics of classic motorcycles:

For the purposes of this article I shall not be considering any motorcycle fitted with fuel injection.

Although engine technology has generally improved over time, it has proceeded in fits and starts for commercial or historic reasons.  It is convenient to divide machines into those manufactured
Before 1945    (1)
1945 to 1965  (2)
1966 to 1980  (3)
After 1980      (4)

(1) Motorcycles manufactured in this period were generally configured to run on fuel with an octane number of less than 60.  (Considerable fuel improvements were made for aviation but this was not made available to the public)  Many ignition systems were self-generating (magneto) and carburettors tend to deliver a rich mixture.  The majority of ignition systems in this period are manually controlled.  Modern fuel generally works well in such machines because it’s specification is so much better than the fuel available when they were manufactured. 

(2) During the period after the War, engine development began to produce higher output per litre by a combination of increased compression and changes in valve timing - particularly ‘overlap’.  Brake mean effective pressure (Bmep) starts to rise, leading to increased operating temperatures.  Pre-ignition (‘knock’) was controlled by a mixture of an increase in fuel quality and the addition of Lead Tetraethyl (an extremely poisonous but very effective anti-knock additive).

Engines manufactured during this period will generally run well on modern fuel provided it is fresh.  Old fuel will generally fail to start and must be mixed with fresh.  Due to the lower effective energy content/volume, it is necessary to review mixture and adjust carburettors accordingly.  Attention should be paid to ignition efficiency, both in terms of advance settings and spark plug grade.  Ignition coils do actually degrade over time and may need replacement.

(3) This is the problem period.  Manufacturers were increasingly desperate to produce ever higher Bmep values from old designs.  The Japanese began to advance with 2-stroke types which easily produce high bhp/litre values.  Few engines manufactured in the period are problem free and many need careful modification to run reliably on modern fuel.  I’ve divided the various common types but it’s worth considering all the issues when evaluating a particular machine.

British 4 strokes
 Often manufactured with little attention to tolerances.  It is essential to check that pistons in twins and multis rise by the same amount.  Cylinder head clearances should be identical.  Many engines were contructed with ‘hemi’ heads with little or no squish band.  The squish area around the edge of the piston must be 40thou (1mm).  Then check that the valves don’t tangle with the piston.  Under no circumstances run one of the higher compression motors on anything except fresh fuel.  Make sure that the ignition is correctly adjusted and that advance curve is correct.  You need to be particularly careful with later Triumph twins and the 750cc Commando.

British 2 strokes
 Often supplied with very poor clearances and tolerances.  2 strokes rely entirely upon accurate squish clearance.  Some machining of the cylinder head may be necessary to achieve this, particularly on BSA and Greaves machines.  Most Villiers engines are effectively pre-war designs so may be treated as category (1).  The majority of 2 strokes are fitted with fixed ignition systems.  This may need to be retarded somewhat to compensate for the faster flame advance on modern fuel.

Japanese 2 strokes.
 These engines were relatively powerful and cool running.  Generally manufacturing tolerances are excellent.  The problem is that they were designed to run with lead additive to control knock.  It is important to pay careful attention to the squish band which is virtually absent on the earlier motors (up to 1973) leading to serious detonation problems.  The only answer is to fill the heads with alloy weld and re-machine to a modern combusion chamber shape.  These motors may require some re-jetting to run efficiently.  Most engines from the period are fitted with the infamous metal shrouded plug cap.  These should go in the bin.

Japanese 4 strokes.
 Generally give little trouble provided the fuel is fresh.  Most machines of this type run relatively hot.  Because modern fuel is more volatile, a hot engine in traffic may lead to erratic running.  Many 4 strokes from this period are fitted with double ended coils and ‘wasted spark’ ignition.  These may give trouble with ethanol fuel mixtures because they are inefficient.  It may be necessary to fit single ended coils.  The manufacturers were under increasing pressure from the US to make engines run lean.  It is worth checking the mixture and fitting larger jets if necessary.

Italian 4 strokes.
 The usual hilarious mixture of wonderful design and shocking production quality means every machine needs to be carefully checked out.  The large block Moto Guzzi twins are unlikely to give much trouble because it is a light car engine and thus massively under stressed in a motorcycle.  In most of these engines the squish clearance is too large, so it is worth machining this until correct.  All the Ducatis and most small Italian 4 strokes need careful checking to ensure that they are reliable.  A lot of the smaller Dellorto carburettors were supplied in a ‘cheap’ version to the manufacturers and these often wear poorly and may require replacement.  The Laverda 750cc and 1000cc models give little trouble but you will have to be particularly careful with the smaller motors.

(4)  Engines produced after 1980 were designed to run on unleaded fuel which was being introduced worldwide.  Machines tend to have better designed cylinder heads which generally cope well with modern fuel mixes.  Because manufacturers were under increasing pressure to achieve lean-running, many such machines run hot - especially in traffic.  This may lead to uneven running with an alcohol mix.  Re-jetting must be considered.

The general rules:
Always use fresh fuel
Do not store fuel in motorcycles for more that 2 months
Drain fuel from tanks and carburettors into sealed cans
Pay careful attention to squish bands after 1965
Ensure ignition systems are working efficiently
Consider re-jetting to prevent weak mixture
Consider updating or replacing coils
Review the operation of magneto systems
Consider lining fuel tanks with a modern sealant e.g POR15
Clean out and remove any corrosion from carburettors.
Greybeard (Neil)
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Online groily

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Re: A post about Changes to motor fuel I found on FB
« Reply #1 on: 24.08. 2021 17:39 »
That's an interesting read GB.
It has the smack of reason about it although a lot of it is above my pay grade.

Luckily I come into the pre-'65 Brit 4 stroke category for most things that matter. A trouble-free category by the looks of, which is certainly what I have found, on compression ratios up to 8.5:1 anyway. Briefly, too, for a more than 10:1 engine, but I detuned that before I had too many fragments to sweep up at the side of some god-forsaken road in the middle of nowhere.

Not sure how the 'problem period' 750 Commando bits in the Atlas motor in my P11 are regarded in this context, but I can leave that bike with fuel in it for months without problems, same as the others. Or should I say 'Have been able to'  hitherto. That's using the 98 octane pump stuff we get here, which has max 5% ethanol. (The 95 octane 10% seems to gum things up a bit in the carb departments, at least in my personal experience, so I avoid it unless I'm stuck - and use it up quick if I have to buy it for want of the better stuff, on a Sunday for example.) Those are RON numbers as opposed to the MON ratings used in the USA and ? elsewhere.

Nor am I sure about the squish band comments - from ignorance pure and simple. Is a 1mm band a minimum, regardless of bore? Or an 'always' measurement? Should the band conform to the shape of the outer part of the combustion chamber? Ie be 'flat' or at an angle? The web is sort-of one's friend on this, but a little learning is a dangerous thing and a quick flick through what Mr Google took me to has left me with more questions than answers regarding widths, angles and optimal combustion chamber shapes. (That's without thinking about 2-strokes, which in my world are for Scotts, RD Yams or three-cylinder Saabs at the top end . . . or for Trabants and chainsaws.)

Interesting also on the effects on ignition systems. It reminded me of a delicate situation a few years ago when I'd done a BTH mag for a hill-climb bike, without realising (didn't tell me!) it was running on methanol at some very extreme double-digit compression ratio, which was really on the outer limit of what a mag can support reliably. But for most purposes, can't see any reason why a mag won't be perfectly OK, never had any problems myself anyway. A lot of us probably knock a degree or two off the full advance setting owing to the fast-burning properties of modern fuel, but even if we don't, pinking or detonation seem to be rare, although high compression alloy head Beesa twins seem to be in the 'more sensitive' category!

Anyway, look forward to more informed comments from them as knows more.
Bill

Online Radlan2

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Re: A post about Changes to motor fuel I found on FB
« Reply #2 on: 25.08. 2021 10:12 »
Hi All
    I too would love t know more about the mysteries of the squish band which becomes more important when a motor is tuned. I have machined an angle on the edge of an A7 alloy head to 70mm to fit it to an A10. I have had pinking at higher revs, I am ordering an SRM crank nut to take a degree disc so that I can strobe the ignition and know exactly where it is set.
       Another thing I have thought about is whether a different plug would help, a cool plug has more length to the porcelain insulator to dissapate heat and stop the tip glowing red? Anyone up on this stuff?
           Cheers Chris.

Offline edboy

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Re: A post about Changes to motor fuel I found on FB
« Reply #3 on: 25.08. 2021 12:55 »
hi chris, the obvious choice for you is to run high octane super. 98 octane i believe. i remember with tridents running 11/1 pistons to avoid pinking there was a guage where you had to remove and smooth metal from the piston crown . then keep removing metal until the pinking stopped. too much work for me.

Offline RDfella

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Re: A post about Changes to motor fuel I found on FB
« Reply #4 on: 25.08. 2021 16:06 »
Squish band clearance to piston needs to be small enough to encourage turbulence, but not so small that the piston my hit when the engine is hot and revved. Hence the approximate 1mm. Never less than 1/2mm. A squish band reduces detonation, helps cylinder cooling and greater fuel economy. A squish band is usually around 15% of bore dia and parallel to cylinder top face.
'49 B31, '49 M21, '53 DOT, '58 Flash, '62 Flash special, '00 Firestorm, Weslake sprint bike.

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Re: A post about Changes to motor fuel I found on FB
« Reply #5 on: 25.08. 2021 17:19 »
Ta for that RD. I like the min width and % of bore thing, makes sense.
Are we talking a band machined on outer edge of piston crown, or in outer face of combustion chamber though? Or both? Or either and it doesn't matter? Just curious  . .
Bill

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Re: A post about Changes to motor fuel I found on FB
« Reply #6 on: 25.08. 2021 18:09 »
Thanks Groily ED RD and Greybeard,
       I am thinking my way out of this problem, which is of my own making, is to fit two 1mm head gaskets thus lowering the compression a bit, though this will loose the important close squish, if it works I will get a special thick one.
        I noted that Groily said the alloy heads can be prone to pinking, I have seen it said of the super rocket type pistons which have the central bump, but is that due to incorrect ign timing and or carburation?
         Best Regs
                 Chris
   

Online groily

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Re: A post about Changes to motor fuel I found on FB
« Reply #7 on: 25.08. 2021 18:48 »
Don't know enough to say much re SR heads and comp ratios. Just that when I've had mates's bikes round with pinking or detonation probs I've knocked back the full advance a couple of degrees roughly - from book spec - and they've been better. But best wait for informed comment from serious users as to what's best, on what fuel and what carb settings. I have never messed with other people's carbs unless obviously all to pot. Again, round here we mostly run on 98 RON at 5% max ethanol. My own A10 was not a role model, being iron head, flat top pistons and not over fussy about anything much.
Bill

Offline berger

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Re: A post about Changes to motor fuel I found on FB
« Reply #8 on: 25.08. 2021 19:16 »
same as in politics i don't believe a word they say about 5 or 10% in the fuel we buy. i think they are putting more in it than what it says on the pump

Offline RDfella

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Re: A post about Changes to motor fuel I found on FB
« Reply #9 on: 25.08. 2021 19:32 »
Bill, squish band is part of the cylinder head, to overlap the bore. On hemi heads (such as ours) one cannot get a band 'all around' and it ends up just between the valves. With an ally head, it's possible to weld on ally and re-machine. Not so with cast iron.

just came across this for the technically-minded. More info than I was aware of:
http://dragonfly75.com/moto/SquishVelocity.html
'49 B31, '49 M21, '53 DOT, '58 Flash, '62 Flash special, '00 Firestorm, Weslake sprint bike.

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Re: A post about Changes to motor fuel I found on FB
« Reply #10 on: 26.08. 2021 06:47 »
Cheers muchly for that RD - an interesting read indeed. I've got it now as to where these creatures live I think. Not things I need to worry too much about on my beasts, but it's good to understand a bit more about them.
Bill

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Re: A post about Changes to motor fuel I found on FB
« Reply #11 on: 26.08. 2021 08:27 »
 There is still the prospect of adding your own Octane Booster Snake Oil to whatever juice is available. From a rider's point of view the engine runs well enough for the style of riding, that's fine. If not the answer is not a simple or cheap solution. In the grand scheme of things the world of transport is changing and there is not much an individual can do but I reckon as usual we'll all muddle through while they continue to pump  it from the ground.

 Got lumbered to fix a Quad Bike with a missing Carb. Got a new Chinese 19mm Honda Clone complete with Air Filter for £10 including delivery. Interestingly this carb has a float bowl drain, which will prove useful for draining the fuel system completely after use. Noticed my (Chinese) mowers also have drain plugs in the float bowls, up to now never used, but in view of the moisture attracting properties of E Fuels an easy and  complete drain of the fuel system will become part of the Winter lay up.

 Swarfy.

Offline Greybeard

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Re: A post about Changes to motor fuel I found on FB
« Reply #12 on: 26.08. 2021 11:47 »
Got lumbered to fix a Quad Bike with a missing Carb. Got a new Chinese 19mm Honda Clone complete with Air Filter for £10 including delivery. Interestingly this carb has a float bowl drain, which will prove useful for draining the fuel system completely after use. Noticed my (Chinese) mowers also have drain plugs in the float bowls, up to now never used, but in view of the moisture attracting properties of E Fuels an easy and  complete drain of the fuel system will become part of the Winter lay up.
In the early 1970's I worked as a mechanic at a Honda bike dealership. The bikes arrived partly disassembled, packed in wooden crates. We had to fit wheels etc and get them going. We always needed to drain the float bowls. The juice that came out was brown coloured and had  a very strange smell, not like UK petrol. Maybe it was a protective fluid. But, as you say, they had very nice drain plugs on the carbs.
Greybeard (Neil)
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Offline muskrat

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Re: A post about Changes to motor fuel I found on FB
« Reply #13 on: 26.08. 2021 20:48 »
G'day Fellas.
As far as I know down here the only ethanol in fuel is the 94 oct E10. We have 91 and 98 with no (they tell us) ethanol.
In the shop (chain saw, lawn mower) we are getting a stream of carbs blocked or just not running. The first sign of the temp getting into double digits the garden implements come out from hibernation. We can tell the difference between ones run on E10 or 98. Mostly on 98 it's just stale fuel but on E10 the diaphragms need replacing.
Drains in the bowl are handy for checking the fuel height in the carb. Setting the float height is good but it's the fuel height that's important.
Cheers
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