Author Topic: Dynamo. Someone please suggest something!  (Read 1619 times)

Offline Mosin

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 273
  • Karma: 2
  • Cumbria
Dynamo. Someone please suggest something!
« on: 24.07. 2021 21:03 »
I am at a total loss for ideas. I run a Lucas E3L Dynamo driven by an SRM Belt drive kit. My bike is running 12v with a positive earth. A month or so ago the dynamo stopped producing a charge. It had been running the original 6v internals and hadn't been touched in the past twenty or so years, so I decided to overhaul it.

I carefully stripped it all down and cleaned everything. I then fitted a new 12v field coil, armature, bearings and brushes from Rex's Speed Shop (which I am led to believe are quality parts). I carefully reassembled everything ensuring that the field coil was pressed very tight and that all moving parts were turning freely before re-fitting it onto the bike. I then flashed the dynamo as described in Roy Bacon.

Started the engine. No charge at all. 

That was three days ago. I had hoped that if I left it for a wee while I might get some flash of inspiration, but that hasn't happened, so you guys are my only hope! Please can someone suggest something that I might have overlooked. However trivial or unlikely it may seem. I am at a loss.

Mosin
1960 A7 Shooting Star
1959 D3 Bantam
1994 Triumph Trident 900

North West England

Offline muskrat

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • **
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 11046
  • Karma: 132
  • Lithgow NSW Oz
    • Shoalhaven Classic Motorcycle Club Inc
Re: Dynamo. Someone please suggest something!
« Reply #1 on: 24.07. 2021 21:29 »
G'day Mosin.
What reg are you using  *????*
Could that have failed  *????*
I'm running the same with a DVRII in both of mine (with Boyer ignition).
Try motoring the dynamo.
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS racer now a A10CR, '78 XT500, '83 CB1100F, 88 HD FXST, 2000 CBR929RR ex Honda Australia Superbike .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline Mosin

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 273
  • Karma: 2
  • Cumbria
Re: Dynamo. Someone please suggest something!
« Reply #2 on: 24.07. 2021 21:53 »
Hi Musky,

I am also using a DVRII. But I tried the test where you join the F & D terminals and then test the voltage between the join and the dynamo casing. Still nothing, so that seems to indicate that the problem is inside the dynamo somewhere.
1960 A7 Shooting Star
1959 D3 Bantam
1994 Triumph Trident 900

North West England

Offline muskrat

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • **
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 11046
  • Karma: 132
  • Lithgow NSW Oz
    • Shoalhaven Classic Motorcycle Club Inc
Re: Dynamo. Someone please suggest something!
« Reply #3 on: 24.07. 2021 22:00 »
Back to the drawing board with the dynamo.
I hate electrics, took me two weeks to find the short in the front brake light switch!
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS racer now a A10CR, '78 XT500, '83 CB1100F, 88 HD FXST, 2000 CBR929RR ex Honda Australia Superbike .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline Mosin

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 273
  • Karma: 2
  • Cumbria
Re: Dynamo. Someone please suggest something!
« Reply #4 on: 24.07. 2021 22:08 »
It sounds daft, but does it matter which way round the field coil is wired? Both the wires coming off it are the same colour and there are no positive/negative markings, so I am working on the assumption that it doesn't matter. Am I right?
1960 A7 Shooting Star
1959 D3 Bantam
1994 Triumph Trident 900

North West England

Online Triton Thrasher

  • Scotland
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2009
  • Posts: 1996
  • Karma: 23
Re: Dynamo. Someone please suggest something!
« Reply #5 on: 24.07. 2021 23:20 »
Yes the field connections matter for direction of rotation.


Offline Mosin

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 273
  • Karma: 2
  • Cumbria
Re: Dynamo. Someone please suggest something!
« Reply #6 on: 25.07. 2021 01:30 »
Aaaah. Now that gives me something to work on. But both wires from the field coil are the same colour so how am I supposed to be able to tell which goes where? And if I have got it the wrong way round will I have burned the coil out by trying it? Please excuse my ignorance.
1960 A7 Shooting Star
1959 D3 Bantam
1994 Triumph Trident 900

North West England

Online trevinoz

  • Newcastle, N.S.W. Australia.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2006
  • Posts: 3234
  • Karma: 71
Re: Dynamo. Someone please suggest something!
« Reply #7 on: 25.07. 2021 02:02 »
Try motoring it for the correct rotation.
To reverse, just reverse the field coil connections.

Offline Mosin

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 273
  • Karma: 2
  • Cumbria
Re: Dynamo. Someone please suggest something!
« Reply #8 on: 25.07. 2021 08:18 »
Try motoring it for the correct rotation.

How do I do this?
1960 A7 Shooting Star
1959 D3 Bantam
1994 Triumph Trident 900

North West England

Offline Swarfcut

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2018
  • Posts: 2379
  • Karma: 57
Re: Dynamo. Someone please suggest something!
« Reply #9 on: 25.07. 2021 08:39 »
 Mosin. This applies to conventional electro mechanical regulators. An electronic regulator  needs the correct polarity from the dynamo to start with and a slightly different method must be used to avoid damage.

    A new field coil is just that. Young and inexperienced. Old field coils have some memory and residual magnetism, enough to generate a small current which builds as the dynamo spins. This is missing from your new field coil.  When you flash the dynamo you are giving the field coil a little bit of magnetic memory.  Purists will realise this is all drivel, but for practical purposes all we need to do is give the field coil some initial magnetism by applying power directly for a short time.

 First check the basics. Assembled and wired correctly, brushes making contact etc. Good earth connection to dynamo body.  Regulator connections good and correct. Good battery. Start it up, let it idle and apply power to the Field Terminal for a few seconds with a wire from the battery live, while increasing engine speed above idle. Applying varying power to the field coil  is what the regulator does to vary the dynamo output. More power here, the greater the dynamo output for a given engine speed. If all in order, ammeter will show output and lights brighten when you rev up. Doing it this way takes care of whichever way the field coil is connected. This initial boost gives the field coil and it's pole piece some residual magnetism.  The technical term for this is "Polarisation", hardly gets a mention in Lucas Service Literature, and back in the day irate customers would return new dynamos to the service department only to be told to bugger off and give it a flash.

 For an electronic regulator I'd suggest disconnecting the dynamo and simply applying the non earth battery lead to the F Terminal, again with the engine running. Then checking for output D &F  joined, junction via load to earth. Finally check this output is polarised correctly, just to be sure. Plenty on the internet about how to do it and precautions to take with electronic systems where the  wrong dynamo output polarity can ruin the electronics. The output polarity changes according to which way the dynamo is turning and which way round the field coil is connected. Polarising in situ takes care of this.

  Usual Lucas wiring is one  field wire and one brush wire to a common earth, other brush to D, remaining field wire to F.


  The motor test joins D & F and applies power to this junction and the dynamo body. Good for checking continuity and basic operation, bit of a game if assembled into the bike and drive connected.

  Swarfy.

Online groily

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2007
  • Posts: 1956
  • Karma: 33
    • www.brightsparkmagnetos.com
Re: Dynamo. Someone please suggest something!
« Reply #10 on: 25.07. 2021 11:28 »
A very good wheeze if a dynamo is persistently reluctant to fire up - assuming the rotation is correct of course, which in this case it likely isn't yet - is to put a wire with a low wattage bulb and horn push button in series, between the dynamo F terminal and battery live (taken from ammeter or wherever). This 'nudge' circuit, which flashes the field more gently owing to the resistance of the bulb, can be used at will to fire up a slow starter. There is a schematic out there somewhere, from the 1950s I think, showing it. I first saw it a few weeks back on the AJS/Matchless forum, where someone posted it. Originally, the schematic showed up in the Ariel world. I think it is very neat, especially for bikes not used that often, whose dynamos may sometimes sulk on start up.
Bill

Offline Mosin

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 273
  • Karma: 2
  • Cumbria
Re: Dynamo. Someone please suggest something!
« Reply #11 on: 25.07. 2021 11:37 »
OK. I have removed the dynamo from the bike and connected it to a 12v battery. Regardless of which was round I connect the pos & neg wires, it rotates in an anti-clockwise direction. I am assuming that this is incorrect and I now need to reverse the field coil wires?

On a positive note though, at least it is doing something, which is nice!
1960 A7 Shooting Star
1959 D3 Bantam
1994 Triumph Trident 900

North West England

Online groily

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2007
  • Posts: 1956
  • Karma: 33
    • www.brightsparkmagnetos.com
Re: Dynamo. Someone please suggest something!
« Reply #12 on: 25.07. 2021 11:51 »
Get it rotating as a motor the way it is driven on the bike, by swapping field wires if necessary, yes. Then motor with your chosen earth, and all might well be well !
Bill

Offline Mosin

  • Valued Contributor
  • ****
  • Join Date: Jun 2009
  • Posts: 273
  • Karma: 2
  • Cumbria
Re: Dynamo. Someone please suggest something!
« Reply #13 on: 25.07. 2021 14:07 »
All back together with the field coil wires reversed. Fitted back on the bike. Flashed and started and she is charging like an angry rhinoceros!

Thanks so much guys. I don't know what I would have done without you. I wish that I could buy you all a pint. But I cant, so I will just go for a ride instead!

Happy days!
1960 A7 Shooting Star
1959 D3 Bantam
1994 Triumph Trident 900

North West England

Online trevinoz

  • Newcastle, N.S.W. Australia.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Jul 2006
  • Posts: 3234
  • Karma: 71
Re: Dynamo. Someone please suggest something!
« Reply #14 on: 25.07. 2021 22:28 »
"Field coils have memory".
This is news to me. The pole shoe and body may have memory but the coil certainly does not.