Author Topic: New BSA mentioned in BBC news feed  (Read 2627 times)

Online BagONails

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Re: New BSA mentioned in BBC news feed
« Reply #30 on: 25.11. 2021 03:19 »
Impressive attention to detail on the Jawa I have to say, that is probably the most retro retro I've seen to date, hats off to Mahindra for that effort.

The Enfield twins are nice bikes and very good value but I struggle a bit with the cheapo details and obvious corner cutting despite the very competitive pricing.

I do hope Mahindra don't play the Gold Star card from the outset as really what is left once they've done that?  I can't imagine "Empire Star" sits too well with their marketing plans either for example despite being somewhat born out of a colonial heritage.  Tricky minefield to navigate that one. As with all these Indian bikes their biggest market by far is the local one. Where they sell even cheaper of course!
Ian
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Offline BSA_54A10

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Re: New BSA mentioned in BBC news feed
« Reply #31 on: 25.11. 2021 12:01 »
mahindra did a good job with the jawa, so I'm not writing this off yet, give me a couple of weeks...

Well that all depened upon how you remember Jawa
As the grey porridge Californian ( I had one ) 2 stroke
As the only engine for speedway & short circuit
As the old AJS vertical single copy ?

Now I see bits of all of them in those images but not enough of any of them to want to make me open my wallet.

Now the Indian market is around 10,000,000 bikes per annum
If they got 1% of that we are talking about 100,000 bikes a year
even 5% is not much less than the total Triumph annual production.
Now total UK motorcycle sales are not much more at 132,000 for 2019
And I doubt they will get much more than 5% of the UK market and in these days of small margins , 7,000 bikes are not enought to be profitable .
Compare that to Triumphs total production of around 60,000 bikes a year and is declining as they have become both too expensive and their target market ( us ) are falling off our perches.
The new bonnie is pretty popular down here amongst the die hard British bike riders who are not content to spend the required time to keep old bikes on the road.
So some other numbers
Total Chinese production is ( estimaed ) at 145,000,000 and that number is an estimate as a lot of bikes are made for foreign brands like BMW but shipped in crates with no wheels so when the Germans add the wheels they are considered to be made in Germany not China .

Now go to Made In China and search for petrol powered motorcycle and then electric powered motorcycles
See the sorts of ex-factory prices ( in US $ ) they are selling for then answer how much will it cost to make the same bike in the UK
So a dealer in the UK would be able to buy bikes from China with their own name on the tank in colours that have appeal in the UK, sell them for the same price as the "Born Again BSA's at 5 times the profit which is exacly what will happen if the "new BSA' looks like getting a reasonable market share
I could see the 125cc "Brexit Bomber" with Union jack painted fairing selling well. or perhaps the new 50cc "bantam" complete with Chook on the tank , $ 400 ex factory $ 500 landed and $ 1500 ( what ever that is in £ today ) on the shop floor with free helmet gloves & jacket . And that bike would be faster, stop better & be more frugal than the original chooks so should have a lot of nostalga eing most youngens will have heard of mum or dads days on a Bantam when they were young.

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Trevor

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Re: New BSA mentioned in BBC news feed
« Reply #32 on: 25.11. 2021 23:53 »
Depressing but very true Trevor, its why I lost my job and Australia no longer has a car manufacturing industry. The only cars still being made in the UK are luxury brands and even their days must be numbered now.

In Enfield's case they make a profit in India and even selling at what is to us an inflated price that still represents very good value in USA/UK/Aus etc that is the icing on the cake to them.  Huge volumes, economies of scale etc.  The main battleground will be in India and that seems to be where Enfield and Jawa have a following, not sure about what the BSA brand means in India these days but my guess is Mahindra know what they are doing.
Ian
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Offline sean

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Re: New BSA mentioned in BBC news feed
« Reply #33 on: 26.11. 2021 03:46 »
If they copied the rgs and gold star  models and fitted them with updated engineering and electric starters but kept the same look I think they would sell be even better if they copied the origional parts so we could have spares

Offline Rex

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Re: New BSA mentioned in BBC news feed
« Reply #34 on: 26.11. 2021 13:16 »
Depressing but very true Trevor, its why I lost my job and Australia no longer has a car manufacturing industry. The only cars still being made in the UK are luxury brands and even their days must be numbered now.

What, Civics, Astras, Minis, Corollas and MGs are luxury brands now? That said, I take your point.

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Re: New BSA mentioned in BBC news feed
« Reply #35 on: 26.11. 2021 15:23 »
Quote
What, Civics, Astras, Minis, Corollas and MGs are luxury brands now?
Chinese MG ceased all UK production at Longbridge in 2016 and Honda ceased all UK production in Swindon in July 2021. Just saying

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Re: New BSA mentioned in BBC news feed
« Reply #36 on: 26.11. 2021 15:33 »
What about Nissan in Sunderland, 7000 employees 500000+ cars made in 2017, not a UK company by UK made cars. Then there is Toyota in Derby, there may be others
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Offline Greybeard

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Re: New BSA mentioned in BBC news feed
« Reply #37 on: 26.11. 2021 16:02 »
Jaguar/Land Rover owned by Tata. Bentley owned by Volkswagen. Rolls Royce owned by BMW!
If you stand on Winston Churchill's grave you can hear a sort of turning sound from down below.

What about Morgan?
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Offline BSA_54A10

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Re: New BSA mentioned in BBC news feed
« Reply #38 on: 27.11. 2021 07:58 »
If they copied the rgs and gold star  models and fitted them with updated engineering and electric starters but kept the same look I think they would sell be even better if they copied the origional parts so we could have spares
The new bike would have to be:-
oil tight
Have ABS breaking which means disc brakes
Be below 85 DBa ( which is why the Jawa is water cooled ).
Meet emission standards = fuel injected , OHC with bucket followers.
So it will never be anything like a GS

The SR 500 is what Yamaha had to do the XT500 to make it street legal back in the 70's
When California tried to bring in new niose levels HD claimed it was impossible to achieve them on an air cooled motorcycle
So Yamaha sent a bunch of them to California for type testing they did pass the exhaust noise test and total noise drive past test but failed the emissions test .
Don't know the truth in the remainder but it was reported that HD then managed to get the President to have a word in the Governors ear and the regulations were not implimented as California was around 2/3 of the total HD USA sales.
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Trevor

Offline BSA_54A10

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Re: New BSA mentioned in BBC news feed
« Reply #39 on: 27.11. 2021 08:28 »
Jaguar/Land Rover owned by Tata. Bentley owned by Volkswagen. Rolls Royce owned by BMW!
If you stand on Winston Churchill's grave you can hear a sort of turning sound from down below.

What about Morgan?

Well the UK had their chance under the Thatcher government
They could never be a competative power in motor vehicle manufacture while they had all of those small volume brand coming out of outgrown cottage industries, particularly as a lot of the models on offer were not particularly good.
I remember at the time all of the motor journals salivating about what could have been but the narrow minded biggotted perochial managers just kept on squabbling amongt themselves so signed their own death warrants, much like the board of BSA when the first intelligent decision to come out of management for decades proposed that all of the bikes to be assembled at a single brand new modern factory dedicated to assembly while  Small Heath, Redditch & Kitts Green be turned over to parts manufacture & engine assembly  as there was just not enough space to both manufacture & assemble at any of them.
For BSA -Triumph , that alone would have knocked near 1/3 off the factory gate price of both brands and made them almost price competative in the USA against the Japanese bikes even before allowing savings on being able to triple the annual production . They may even have been price competative at home , but no the plant managers squabbled & fought amongst themselves then wasted £ 2,000,000 shoehorning what was supposed to be a straight line assembly track round & round in circles into the 2nd floor of the new building at Small Heath .   
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Offline Rex

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Re: New BSA mentioned in BBC news feed
« Reply #40 on: 27.11. 2021 09:05 »
The death rattles of these old industries has been kicked over so much over the last few decades that no-one now knows what was reality and what was Chinese whispers of "well my mate from down the pub told me that..." or the more usual now "I read somewhere on the Net that..."
Everyone has their favourite anecdotes and a few of them might even have a grain of truth, but all are subject to that perfect 20:20 hindsight vision.
Either way, the rise of the Asian industries shook all the Western manufacturers to some extent, and now in turn the up-and-coming Asian manufacturers are affecting the Old Guard Japanese manufacturers.
In twenty years there'll be people in Yokohama sighing over why they didn't fit ABS brakes to the 50cc range or bemoaning the fact that they were too little too late to the electric scooter craze or some other such minutaie allegedly causing the loss of local industries.
Change is a constant, and all that.

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Re: New BSA mentioned in BBC news feed
« Reply #41 on: 27.11. 2021 10:10 »
The death rattles of these old industries has been kicked over so much   . . .
Change is a constant, and all that.
Spot on Rex. The only constant, they say.
You can't make an instant 'classic' but good things will earn that status over time.
Some less good things seem to have gained it 'unearned' too - but that's a whole other story.
A retro effort embodying even a small proportion of the warts that caused the original manufacturers to die isn't going to cut it these days.
If we want a 'classic' and are prepared to suffer the pain for the pleasure, then there are plenty out there still luckily.
If we want a 'modern', there are zillions.
If we want a 'modern with classic touches' then they're in the second category, being  first and foremost 'Modern', whether they have evolved over the years like Morgans and Hardly-Ablesons, or had resurrected names appended to cash in on brand nostalgia.

There could be nothing worse than modern stuff that doesn't work, and of course, as we all know, there's nothing better than classic stuff that does!
Bill

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Offline Greybeard

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Re: New BSA mentioned in BBC news feed
« Reply #44 on: 29.11. 2021 03:03 »
https://www.apcuk.co.uk/funded-projects/bsa-company-ltd-the-electric-bsa-project/

the companies model names like lightning and golden flash and many others, just begging to go on an electric bike   ;)
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