Primary Chain Lubrication level query

[MickFarmer64]

Lucky I've managed to find and buy a very nice A10 Super Rocket. I'm changing the Primary, Engine & Gearbox oil with some lovely new stuff. Looking at the Primary casing, it looks like and I may well be wrong. But a small hole has been tapped into the bottom of the casing to allow for a small drain plug, rather than undoing the lowest of the outer case bolts to drain. As this drains pretty much everything out the casing. Putting in the 225ml that I've read on here, the oil level doesn't reach the bottom of the chain.

Long winded way of asking, but does the bottom of the chain need to be in contact with the oil, or does it pick up some of the oil from another part of the casing I can't see etc. Just want to make sure I've put enough in.

Apologies if this has been covered previously. I've tried searching but cant see anything that fully covers everything

Cheers, Mick

[muskrat]

G'day Mick.
Yes the chain should just touch the oil.
Have a look here  https://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=10861.0
Cheers

[MickFarmer64]

G'day Mick.
Yes the chain should just touch the oil.
Have a look here  https://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=10861.0
Cheers

That's great, many thanks. 

[RogerSB]

Hi Mick,

A10 should be 225 cc (8 fl oz) and my understanding is that the chain only needs to pick up oil when it's thrashing around.

If you look at the photo, the line I've drawn represents a horizontal level (not where the oil level will actually be).  If you look in the inspection hole you won't see oil covering the chain at that position but the level under the clutch sprocket (which you won't be able to see by looking in the hole) should just dip in oil to pick up a little and that'll be enough, as you don't want oil to saturate the clutch.

My A10 is 1960 swinging arm and has a drain/ level plug in the bottom of the cover. Check that your case hasn't got a hole in the bottom with a thread to take a drain/level plug. (Edit): You can see the combined level / drain plug position in this pic.

[MickFarmer64]

Hi Mick,

A10 should be 225 cc (8 fl oz) and my understanding is that the chain only needs to pick up oil when it's thrashing around.

If you look at the photo, the line I've drawn represents a horizontal level (not where the oil level will actually be).  If you look in the inspection hole you won't see oil covering the chain at that position but the level under the clutch sprocket (which you won't be able to see by looking in the hole) should just dip in oil to pick up a little and that'll be enough, as you don't want oil to saturate the clutch.

My A10 is 1960 swinging arm and has a drain/ level plug in the bottom of the cover. Check that your case hasn't got a hole in the bottom with a thread to take a drain/level plug. (Edit): You can see the combined level / drain plug position in this pic.

Hi Roger,many thanks for the info.

It looks like mines just been drilled and tapped for a small bolt/screw with a copper washer rather than a factory drain. As its at the lowest part of the case, once I drained the oil, the inside of the case was pretty much bone dry. Given this, I've put in around 300ml. The oil now just touches the chain along its longest length (that I can see) I'm guessing though that it'll be just a little higher on the sprocket than shown on your photo. There does seem to be a little debate on here ref 225ml-310ml. Makes you wonder back in the day just how particular people would have been with regards to the amount of oil. Can't help but think people may well have just chucked some in as and when.

If the case is over filled what's the potential effect on the clutch if it get saturated?

Mick

[ellis]

Hi MickFarmer64,
 Over filled primary, you will find that the clutch will drag making it difficult to select neutral and possibly clutch slipping. As i have said in previous posts 190cc as an oil change or if the case has been taken off so compleatly dry it will nead 310cc.

ELLIS.

[RDfella]

I know not many agree with me, but I've not put oil in my primary cases (except Villiers, with cork clutch) for several dacades. If the chain touches the oil, some will get in the clutch. Got tired of stuck / slipping clutches, so I put the primary chain in hot melted grease before fitting and re-do every 3,000 miles or so. After all, it's running in a better environment that the rear chain, and that's not running in oil. And what about the dynamo chain?

[bsa-bill]

I think the primary chain runs much faster then the rear chain, a friend tried running the primary chain dry said after running it up and down the village street it was red hot so he put oil back in.

[Rex]

This is another of those never-ending debates though; spray/oil the primary chain on a regular basis or stick to BSA's recommended oil lube instructions. The clutch doesn't need oil to work, so as long as the chain is lube'd (NOT dry, as in the post above) then I'm sure it makes no odds.
Those poor unfortunates with leaky tin primaries have been going down the chain spray route for years now.

[JulianS]

Dont forget to lubricate the cush drive if you decide to leave out the oil.

[Black Sheep]

Ran the Norton from Edinburgh to Bristol with linklyfe on the chain and no oil in the chaincase. Chain destroyed. More recently, rode the Velo 560 miles round the Highlands with no oil in the chaincase (ny error). Chain destroyed.
The primary chain needs oil for both cooling and lubrication.
I add oil until I can just feel oil on the top run when turning the engine over. Works for me. Don't forget to press the mag cut out when doing this...

[RDfella]

If your chain is destroyed in a hundred miles or so, there's something radically wrong with the sprockets or alignment. As noted earlier, I haven't put oil in a primary case for several decades (save the Villiers with cork clutch - cork likes oil) and after thousands of miles have yet to have a chain fail. How long does your dynamo chain last? That's running faster without oil.

[Black Sheep]

Nope. With oil in the chaincase they last for years - and the Norton was putting in 300 miles a week commuting, year in year out. The Velo similarly, but not the commuting.

[Greybeard]

How long does your dynamo chain last? That's running faster without oil.

Thin grease?

[muskrat]

G'day Fellas.
The clutch bearing rollers also need a splash of oil. The grease used when assembling don't stay there long.
On my racer with a dry primary I'd squirt chain lube in before each race. I'd only get a few meetings out of a top quality Reynolds chain and a season out of the bearing (greased every meeting). 30km per race, 6 races per meeting, 6 meetings per year.
On the same subject. The clutch in the 51 A7 is dragging so much it won't go into gear with the motor running! She hadn't been started for a month and had wet sumped. With no seal on the crank about a pint of 40/70 drowned the clutch even with the dome cover on it.
Gives me my first job in the new shed 
Cheers