E10 petrol (10% ethanol) coming to the UK

[Black Sheep]

In this morning's news:

The All-Party Parliamentary Group for British Bioethanol says the swift introduction of E10 fuel would also help the £1bn British biofuel industry.

We're all doomed...

[muskrat]

G'day BS.
Does that mean all fuel (petrol) in the UK will be E10 including premium?
We've had E10 down here for ages but still have 91, 95 and 98 non ethanol.
Cheers

[duTch]

 Don't tell bergs or he'll never go to the pub again...

[Greybeard]

G'day BS.
Does that mean all fuel (petrol) in the UK will be E10 including premium?
We've had E10 down here for ages but still have 91, 95 and 98 non ethanol.
Cheers

Every petrol station I visit has Diesel and Premium, (95 Octane) and sometimes, Premium Plus/Super, (97-98 Octane), so only two types of petrol pump. I suppose E10 would go into the Premium tanks.

[BSA_54A10]

If you have fitted the upgraded carb parts then the only thing you need to do is to turn the taps off and run the carb(s) dry at the end of your ride.
Some drain their bikes tank & dump it into their cars then get fresh fuel for their next ride.
Only those lucky enough to ride SR's & RR's might have a problem with pinking.
Most will need to raise the needle because the octane might be higher but the specific energy of E 10 is substantially lower.
You also will need to remember that servo that you used to just make before you ran out of fuel will now be a short push.

[Greybeard]

If you have fitted the upgraded carb parts...

Will you enlarge on that, please?

[RogerSB]

I always use BP Ultimate (so no ethanol) in my A10, plus I add Redex Lead Replacement & Redex System Cleaner and during the winter months, when riding becomes less frequent, I always keep the tank full to the top (hoping to avoid condensation in the tank) and I add Sta-Bil Marine 360 Fuel Stabilizer also.  Belt and braces - probably, but for the small extra cost I feel I should give my G/Flash as much help as possible.

I put the necessary amount of the additives in a 10 ltr fuel can, fill it with petrol and top up my bike's tank from that.

I should add that since I've been doing this I have noticed that my bike runs sweeter and I have no trouble starting it.

[bikerbob]

I took this problem of Ethanol up with my then MP in 2011 he sent my letter to the then Minister for Transport Philip Hamond MP I recieved a letter in reply from a Norman Baker at the department of Transport who said at that time there  was no plans to introduce 10% Ethanol only 5%. That has now it seems changed but what I was informed was that if the Ethanol content were to go up to10% it was a requirement in law that it would have to be indicated on the pumps that requirement was not needed for 5%. I still have that letter.

[morris]

If you have fitted the upgraded carb parts...

Will you enlarge on that, please?

I think he refers to a Viton tipped needle and a stay-up float. All other parts should resist to ethanol IMHO.
The problem is that you never know how much ethanol is added.
E10 stands for Ethanol 10%, but that just means that petrol may contain from 0 to a maximum of 10% ethanol...
Maybe you should ask the station owner how much there's in before filling up 
Or it should be made obligatory for each petrol station to have a forecourt sign anouncing todays percentage of ethanol...
Having said that, I fill up with the straight from the pump 98 (E5) without any additives for a long time now and have never encountered any difficulties

[bikerbob]

If you can be bothered there is a way of calculating how much Ethanol is in your fuel.
1.   Pour 25ml of water into a 100ml cylinder. making  W=25ml

2  Pour 75ml of fuel sample into the same cylinder,  making   F=75ml

3  Close the cylinder and shake it. Set upright and allow to settle

4  The original volume section(W) was 25ml. Once the solution has settled there will be an increase in the volume of (W) by an amount (D). To determine the value of D  subtract 25 from the new         level reading of W.

5  To determine the percentage of Ethanol in the fuel sample. devide D (volume difference in W) by F (amount of original fuel sample) and muliply by 100 (the amount of solution in the cylinder)

The reason why you get an increase in the volume of W is Ethanol is hydroscopic it absorbs water. To carry this further in theory you should able to remove the Ethanol from your fuel  by scaling up fuel sample to maybe a gallon adding say a half pint of water then mix wait for it to settle then syphon off the fuel leaving the water and Ethanol behind. It goes without saying that in syphoning off the fuel you would have to be very careful that you did not syphon any water mix.

[bsa-bill]

To determine the percentage of Ethanol in the fuel sample. divide D (volume difference in W) by F (amount of original fuel sample) and multiply by 100 (the amount of solution in the cylinder)

Thanks for that Bob -  BP, Shell, supermarket brand and now the Algebra chain of fuel staitions 

[Duncan R]

I have a bike I keep in France, never had an issue with the E10 petrol sometimes its sits for months without use. Not sure how it affects the BSA's fuel system though.

Whilst working abroad for awhile my BSA was stored in a mates garage for 8 years, I did leave some fuel in the tank by mistake but the bike actually started fairly easily with the old fuel, no ethanol in it but I thought it would have gone off.

[Swarfcut]

Well, just goes to show the Physical Chemistry Concept of Partition Coefficient has an everyday practical use. Bear in mind if you try this trick, the successive repeat operations will yield less and less ethanol into the aqueous (water) phase. Just the way it is.

 Thanks to bikerbob for jogging my memory. It was usually used to remove sugar after some toe rag lowlife had spiked your fuel tank, the sugar having a greater affinity for water than hydrocarbons.

 Adding Ethanol is nothing new. Anyone remember "Cleveland Discol" from the middle of last century? All sorts of marketing claims, eventually being taken over by Esso  (Exxon). The myth being broken one day seeing an Esso tanker delivering to a Cleveland Station.

 Swarfy.

[coater87]

 Over here we have E85.

 I am no expert, but I have been told that the octane rating on this is somewhere around 115.

 This would be great for old cars running old engines, they run much cooler.

 Supposedly the bad parts are that you run 30% more fuel to go the same distance.

 Also, its very hard on older, cast carburetor bodies for some reason.

 But if you are set up with a billet carb, or a modern fuel injection conversion you are fine.

 Anybody know anything concrete about using this?

 The cost is 1/4 what 110 octane leaded fuel costs me.

 Lee



 

[muskrat]

G'day Lee.
Down here our V8 Super Car Racers run E85.
The addition of ethanol increases the octane rating of petrol (it's not petrol anymore just fuel). Down here they mix 10% ethanol to standard 91 unleaded and get 94 octane. To get the same bang for buck as 1 gal petrol you'd need to burn 1.4 gal ethanol.
When racing my 57 A7SS on 100% methanol I'd get about 12 MPG. Very fast miles 
Cheers