Why is my front brake still useless?

[PrewarMG]

Stopping any car weighing nearly two tons with drum brakes of any sort would need a fair amount of servo assistance. The inherent stability of twin trailing shoes was presumably the attraction but the cost and complexity of the operating system probably didn’t warrant that approach as the same operating system could operate twin leading shoes with all the benefits that they would bring.

P.S. I think, but can’t be certain, that the Mk VIII Jaguar switched to twin leading shoes, or perhaps even discs?

[chaterlea25]

Welcome MG,
I have seen photos of a few TLS conversions where the lever(s) are inside the hub rather than external
I thought the usual fix for prewar MG's is a hydraulic conversion  *????
The attached 4 shoe brake takes some "figuring out" 

John

[PrewarMG]

Fabulous! I love the four brake shoe setup! However, it would almost certainly be a failure. I mentioned F.A. Stepney Acres (above) and in one of his papers he describes just such an experiment which, in his words, “was a complete failure; it overheated very rapidly, with consequent early fade, and it seemed as if it would never cool off”.

The internal linkage for the TLS setup is interesting but with the large hub for the wire wheel (see attached photo) I’m not sure there’s room for something like that. But certainly food for thought. Thank you.

Fitting hydraulics is of course an option but not one I’d personally consider. There are also 12” cable operated brakes on later MGs and these are often fitted. But I’m hopeful that my modified Triumph shoes, with shortened trailing linings in due course, will suffice.

[berger]

you need to cut holes in the floor and turn it into a flintstones car then get some bigger boots on , now where's my black &tan

[PrewarMG]

you need to cut holes in the floor and turn it into a flintstones car then get some bigger  boots on

👍🤣

[BagONails]

Welcome MG,
I have seen photos of a few TLS conversions where the lever(s) are inside the hub rather than external
I thought the usual fix for prewar MG's is a hydraulic conversion  *????
The attached 4 shoe brake takes some "figuring out" 

John

I still have "no idea why my front brake is useless" but from what we had all agreed... are those linings at the wrong end of the shoes on the Manxman TLS brake John?

[PrewarMG]

It’s hard to tell which is the abutment end and which the cam end, but if the arrows in the picture below are pointing at the abutment end, then they would appear to be pivoted shoes and the linings should be centrally disposed on the shoes, not offset. If, however, the arrows are pointing at the cam ends, then the shoes do look to be sliding and so the linings are correct, assuming clockwise rotation of the wheel.

P.S. I don’t think pivoted TLS are very common and the ones in the picture below are BMW (R75 I think?)

[chaterlea25]

Hi All,
I'm pleading the fifth amendment 

John

[berger]

John 

[groily]

The oft quoted claim that the leading shoe does 60-70% of the work is, quite simply, wrong. Once bedded in, both shoes do equal work..

So a twin trailing shoe brake would be as good as a twin leading shoe brake?

I had a faint memory of reading something about "2TS" brakes a long long time ago. A bit of rootling around brought me to page 259 of Robert Ireson's good basic guide to motor vehicles, the Penguin Car Handbook, revised edition 1967 (first published in 1960).

Where the man says (and I quote word for word):

"A more recent development (than the 2LS brake) is that of the two trailing shoe brake (2T.S.) This arrangement has been shown to be less sensitive to high temperature effects (fading) than the two leading shoe system, and also provides more consistent and progressive braking. ('Progressive' implies that braking effort is proportional to pedal pressure.) However, since the tendency is for the brake shoes to 'unwrap', higher operating pressures are required, and in order to reduce the force required at the foot pedal it is usual to provide servo assistance  . . ."

Not a two-wheeler option then unless I'm missing a trick. And  moot probably in a world of universal discs, except on air-braked Heavies.