E10 petrol (10% ethanol) coming to the UK

[Black Sheep]

Just received this from FBHVC.
Important we respond to DOT Consultation before it is too late (second link down).
Interesting they are proposing E10 at a time when the EU are proposing halving the ethanol production from bio crops, due to increasing food prices and  world deforestation in order to try to grow more food crops. Germany actually showed a fall in E10 last year!

Dear Enthusiast,
The Department of Transport has issued a consultation document on the subject of introducing higher levels of ethanol in petrol.

Many older vehicles are likely to suffer damage and possibly dangerous fuel leaks if the E10 grade of petrol is used without modification to their fuel systems.

For the purposes of this consultation the Government is focussing on vehicles more than 25 years old.

Whilst wishing to introduce the higher ethanol level E10 grade of fuel, the Government are guaranteeing a 'protection grade' of petrol at the E5 grade that is equivalent to the currently available 95 RON petrol.  However this guarantee will only last until 2020 when further consultation will take place.

It is likely that on the introduction of E10 at the 95 RON level, the currently available 'Super' grades with an octane level of 97 RON or higher, will cease to be available.

The Federation has designed a survey on petrol useage in older vehicles which will provide valuable evidence in the consultation response.

Please complete the survey and help the Federation preserve our right to use 'Yesterday's Vehicles on Tomorrow's Roads'.

The survey can be accessed by clicking this link. Ethanol Survey.https://paulc1.typeform.com/to/Bt7HKS

If you wish to read the consultation document it can be found by following this link Department for Transport consultation. https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/e10-petrol-consumer-protection-and-fuel-pump-labelling

Please encourage your friends and fellow enthusiasts to complete the survey, just forward this email and they will be able to follow the survey link. The survey will close on 31 August 2018 in order to collate the results for the Federation's response to the consultation. A copy of the response will be made available on the Federation's website.

Thank you for supporting the Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs and helping to keep historic vehicles on the road.

Paul Chasney
Director - Research

[groily]

Plenty of E10 infesting the EU, that's for sure, reduction would be good! Sometimes, the only choice here in France is that, or stock 95 RON (which is 5% maybe?). Same in most countries in Yrop.
98 still widely available though too, and doesn't seem to block pilot jet circuits like the bio-gunge seems to on one or two of mine. To be hoped that the higher octane E-free stuff remains available, but it sounds like the old leaded 4 star thing all over again really. Available for a bit, then less and less, then none.
However, barring sticky residue trouble, I haven't found things won't work on the modern (95 E5) brew, and haven't had too much pinking, even with engines with comp ratios of 8 and 9 to 1.
Must be better to feed people than turn it all into fuel, that's for sure - but then someone is going to have to address agricultural subsidies I guess, as farmers don't grow things just because they have green or ungreen instincts! Money talks.
Politicians shouldn't be let loose on any of this - just look at the diesel disaster. Any fool knew the particulates weren't too tasty - but because the eye was on other pollutants, the people got conned into going that way  . . . and is now being sort-of encouraged back to petrol again. Until we have to go leccy - which is all very well in towns, but is a joke in remoter parts at the moment.
Glad to have lived most of my life in simpler times!

[LJ.]

Done! Easy to do but working out roughly how much petrol I use in a year was difficult.

[Topdad]

Done it, interestingly I heard a conversation about future modes of powering our vehicles this  included people from the car industry ,tree huggers and a guy involved with the development of electric vehicles and the siting of more charging points country wide plus others. The point made by the guy who wants to see the use of electric vehicles grow was that even if the govt or whoever arranged for many many more thousands of these charging points and the cars were available then the national grid wouldn't be able to supply the additional power to charge 'em it doesn't have the capacity ! The tree huggers were quite surprised to say the least .

[a101960]

Well, I have filled out the form, but the way that it is slanted indicates that it is going to happen anyway and that the consultation is merely a public relations exercise. It might prove to be an electoral disaster to legislate old vehicles off the road, so the chosen method of achieving this appears to be to make it very difficult if not impossible to use them.

[Dynamo Regulators Mike]

form filled, straightforward enough, no issues

BTW, what is a tree hugger? Koala perhaps? Sloth?

A few years ago renewable electricity was never going to be cost effective, plus ca change. . .

[BSA_54A10]

form filled, straightforward enough, no issues

BTW, what is a tree hugger? Koala perhaps? Sloth?

A few years ago renewable electricity was never going to be cost effective, plus ca change. . .

An idiot moron bastard with no actual understanding of physics, chemistry or enviromental sciences, usually a graduate in a humanities type subject who appoints themselves as the self styled saviour to fix a problem that they have zero understanding of.

[BSA_54A10]

As for e10 ( we also had e85 down here but it looks like it flopped ) the NSW government has now set quotas for servos.
If they do not sell enough e10 they will get finned or risk loosing their license.
Two of the local servos stick "not in use" signs on their strait unleaded to try & force the people who do not want to use e10 to use e10.
Apparently e15 is on it's way
Funny enough the side of politics that is pushing for the "enviromentally friendly" e 15 is the same one that wants to tear down unsightly windmills and build more coal fired power stations.
What was that comment about not having the knowledge base required to understand a problem ?

[Greybeard]

BTW, what is a tree hugger?

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tree%20hugger

[RayC10]

Do any folk use or wished they had used that lead replacement additive? Is it neccessary or benificial in our old clunkers do you think? Cheers.

[Greybeard]

Do any folk use or wished they had used that lead replacement additive? Is it neccessary or benificial in our old clunkers do you think? Cheers.

I was doping my fuel tank with some sort of alledged petrol enhacer. It was making for oily plugs. Someone here advised that our bikes, with the sort of low mileage I achieve each year didn't need it so I stopped.

[BSA_54A10]

Do any folk use or wished they had used that lead replacement additive? Is it neccessary or benificial in our old clunkers do you think? Cheers.

Not unless you are running 11:1 pistons or riding at 30,000 feet under lean burn conditions. Or trying to race F1.
All of the dire consequences from running unleaded came from research done by the avaition & maratime industries , most likely funded by the relevant insurance companies.
This information got incorrectly applied to motorcycles cause it was a good pannic inducing story  and that sells magazines & newspapers.

I know that flash lube kills engine knocks cause a member used it and tipped his old fuel into his car after every ride.
The car was fuel injected and the engine manager advanced the timing till the knock sensor detected a knock then backed the timing off.
HE stared getting stupid fuel economy while the engine started to run very hot.
Then on the next fill it would be back to almost normal, took a while to nut that one out.

[duTch]

 The only stuff I've added to my fuel is a local made 'Octane booster' in my Gutzzi for the past ten years or so, but I really  don't notice the difference....but since our discussion re:castor oil, I've added that to both bikes, and haven't re-fuelled the Gutzzi since, but have done a few tanks-full on the A10, and have had a ~10% increase in mileage.... (BP-98)

[berger]

I use stuff called tetraboost ,its expensive but when I double dose boy does she take off, on the odd occasion I refill without it she turns into a bit of a slug and tells me shes not happy dad

[BSA Biker]

Just a quickie, what are the benefits of putting caster oil in the petrol ? back in the 1960's as a stupid young rocker my friends and I would buy a pint of Castrol R between us and put  a couple of tea spoons in our petrol just for that distinctive smell. But were not aware of any improvement from it.

When will the powers to be wake up to the use of hydrogen for a propellant fuel, far safer than petrol and better for the environment, something that battery cars will never be, or carbon neutral for that matter.