Author Topic: Which EasyCap do I need?  (Read 4215 times)

Offline richard boys

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Re: Which EasyCap do I need?
« Reply #15 on: 04.10. 2020 15:59 »
just had my mag rebuilt with a co4 easycap starts first kick
57 RR, 61 SR motor

Offline richard boys

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Re: Which EasyCap do I need?
« Reply #16 on: 27.10. 2020 11:58 »
 i decided to have the easy cap fitted; my mag had 20 years since last looked at and i knew i had issues! i sent it of to Paul in Bristol UK recommended by bright spark magnetos he rebuilt it rewound and fitted a co4 easy cap the bike starts first kick with much reduced effort on the kick start ,just come up from the shed feeling quite euphoric the charging system works ! new field coil and armature plus bearings brush's to dynamo and wired up a Wassel regulator to a new wiring loom can the day get any better ? i did remove the fuse before i left the shed  you cant be to careful !
57 RR, 61 SR motor

Offline Speedy

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Re: Which EasyCap do I need?
« Reply #17 on: 01.11. 2020 18:22 »
BTH are still making magnetos for the A10 ,they now have electronic advance and retard fitted so you don't need the handle bar lever anymore. They are based in  Milton Keynes in England. BTH Magneto components Ltd, 15 Haythorp Close, Downhead Park, Milton Keynes,  Buckinghamshire,  MK159 DD.  Email, weborders@bt-h.biz  Thhese are brand new items that can be  programmed.
Hope this will help  someone.

Offline chaterlea25

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Re: Which EasyCap do I need?
« Reply #18 on: 01.11. 2020 20:12 »
Hi Speedy,
B.T.H who make the modern ignitions have nothing to do with the original BTH (British Thomson Hueston)

John
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Offline tomkilde

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Re: Which EasyCap do I need?
« Reply #19 on: 14.06. 2021 19:20 »
Replacement parts for the "early" brass plate contact breaker assemblies are available but somewhat rare.  It seems like parts for the "late" steel plate assemblies are much easier to find, and I've also read that they are easier to adjust.  Rather than trying to restore it, I'm wondering if it might be worth the extra cost to replace my worn out, corroded old brass contact breaker assembly with a shiny new steel one.  Has anyone had experience with both and have a clear preference?
1961 BSA A10 Super Rocket
1983 BMW R80/RT

Online groily

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Re: Which EasyCap do I need?
« Reply #20 on: 14.06. 2021 20:01 »
Even the later so-called low-inertia steel ones are getting harder for parts, and the quality of replica bits has been up and down. I don't like them as much as the earlier style for the reasons I repeat below  . . . originally under Minto's post about 'Points, does this look right? (qv https://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=16251.0):

If in your travels you come across a decent brass type, of the earlier generation, I'd grab it.
They are in many people's view 'better' for four reasons:
first, the opening point and spring are the LT earth side so a kiss (of the spring blade againt the cam-ring) doesn't kill the spark;
secondly, the double spring blade of the brass types is gentler in operation than the steel equivalent;
thirdly the points gap stays in adjustment longer (as a rule) for not relying on friction on sliding bits.
Fourthly, quite often, the contacts mate a lot more squarely too.
And a fifth plus point is that you get the option of an auxiliary earth brush on the back face, which can help reduce the dimpling at the firing points of the mag that is caused on the armature drive end brass piece by return current through the main earth brush.

 . . .

 It's also worth knowing that if you come across a decent BTH anti-clockwise backplate off, say, a KC2, that'll work very nicely too. Main dimensions are the same, the integral keyway that sets the internal timing is in the same place and the design is better too. New complete BTH assemblies can be had (Lindsley again) - but you need a mortgage. A Bosch set will also serve and is well made - but the keyway will probably need suppressing and reforming in the right place, or the camring repositioning.


I can't think of anything that makes me think differently this evening. The thing with the brass item is the state of the pivot post for the opening point, and the hole it goes through. The original pillar was supposed to be 0.185" (memory, which can fade so don't kill me if wrong!) but they're often pretty worn. Kits usd to be available to replace them, which is a fiddly business. Haven't seen the kits for a bit, but a replacement can be made if it must be, a fraction oversize if necessary to reclaim the opening point.
Contacts can be grafted onto the fixed and opening sides if necessary too. Silver solder job. Thus rebuilt, the brass ones can have their life extended indefinitely.

So, I'd try to keep what you have. Dave Lindsley Magnetos in the UK may have some points, certainly worth asking as his stuff usually is decent.

If going 'steel', it is apparently the case that Grove Classics, the UK Velo specialists, have taken on the production and supply of parts and replica points etc. If so, and if the QC is OK, could be an OK option.

In terms of performance, the steel assemblies will often provide a snappier opening and closing of the points which is helpful at very low rpm (due to the heavier spring rate), but overall I prefer the brass version on all the counts mentioned. For what it isn't worth!

Bill

Offline tomkilde

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Re: Which EasyCap do I need?
« Reply #21 on: 14.06. 2021 21:55 »
Thanks Bill.  I will try refurbishing my brass assembly first.  I found a source here in the US with NOS Lucas replacement points for a reasonable cost.  My biggest concern right now is getting the old parts out without damaging the backer plate - most of the tiny steel fasteners are completely seized and are not responding to penetrating oil.
1961 BSA A10 Super Rocket
1983 BMW R80/RT

Offline tomkilde

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Re: Which EasyCap do I need?
« Reply #22 on: 23.09. 2021 21:41 »
Update - after soaking the assembly in penetrating oil for a few days I was able to remove the old points without any trouble, but the screws holding the leaf springs are not cooperating.  To get a better purchase on the screw on the brass post end, I cut the springs.  It didn't help.  Fortunately, I think I've found a source for NOS replacement springs.  Unfortunately the screw is completely destroyed.  I will get it out eventually, but can someone inform me on the correct size/pitch/etc. for the replacement?
1961 BSA A10 Super Rocket
1983 BMW R80/RT

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Re: Which EasyCap do I need?
« Reply #23 on: 24.09. 2021 07:56 »
6BA, with a head as non-protruding as possible (or it may foul the camring as things go round).

Probably not the easiest screw to find where you are though, unless you can pinch one out of some other defunct period electrical device!
It could be that a similar sized UNF/C or even metric screw could serve, after a quick pass through with a suitable tap. Worst case, if the thing's really messed up when you get the remains out (which may not be that easy either), helicoil inserts exist (I think)  . . . but a nadgery old business in that location.
Surprising how much grief a tiny screw can cause, and quite a lot of them refuse to co-operate, just like yours. Ouch.
Bill

Offline Swarfcut

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Re: Which EasyCap do I need?
« Reply #24 on: 24.09. 2021 09:57 »
 Lucas were always fond of the BA threads, used universally in British Electrical  and Electronic Industries.

  Last time I used 6BA was in a little oddpack  from a now defunct model shop. I bet GB has a good few.....

 A 50 Watt Soldering Iron is good for adding localised heat in such stubborn cases in preference to an open flame. Hot air gun also worth a try, but shield the fibre points heel on a complete assembly.

 Swarfy.

Offline RDfella

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Re: Which EasyCap do I need?
« Reply #25 on: 24.09. 2021 10:56 »
Ah yes, BA. I'm in the process of re-balancing a Villiers crank (boring holes for lead inserts) and just discovered a crack in one crankcase half, running from the main bearing right across the case to the outside OD. Culprit is the 2BA holes drilled into the main bearing boss to mount the magneto back plate. The bearing housing is barely thicker than the diameter of the screws, leaving bugger-all metal each side. A crack waiting to happen. Now got to machine the crack suitable for welding. "out of the gloom a voice said - smile and be happy, things could be worse. And so I smiled and was happy and behold things did get worse". Or as my son keeps telling me 'given your karma Dad, you must have been a terrible person in a previous life'.
'49 B31, '49 M21, '53 DOT, '58 Flash, '62 Flash special, '00 Firestorm, Weslake sprint bike.

Offline tomkilde

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Re: Which EasyCap do I need?
« Reply #26 on: 24.09. 2021 12:59 »
Thanks for the replies.  The 6BA screw will be no problem to get "over here" - "British Tools & Fasteners" in NY has them in a variety of lengths, head styles, and even in stainless.  It looks like they carry the matching taps as well.
1961 BSA A10 Super Rocket
1983 BMW R80/RT

Offline tomkilde

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Re: Which EasyCap do I need?
« Reply #27 on: 20.10. 2021 23:45 »
I won my battle with the tiny seized fasteners and re-assembled the magneto with the reconditioned points plate and new brushes.  I adjusted the points gap and gave the magneto a test spin by hand.  To my surprise, the crusty 40-year old spark plugs produced nice fat blue sparks.  (New plugs and wires are on order.)  Setting the timing is next.  There are plenty of resources online explaining how to do it, and most (but not all) clarify that the ignition should be fully advanced for this process.  However, all the examples I have found use an automatic advance unit.  I have a manual advance, and I'm embarrassed to say I don't know which orientation is "advanced" - with the cable slack and the plunger down, or with the cable taut and the plunger up.  Help?

The central screw fixing the points plate is an Allen-head type.  Is this original and correct?  I'm concerned that it won't make good contact with the cut-out brush, and/or will wear the brush down too quickly.  I assume a screw with a smooth head would be more appropriate?
1961 BSA A10 Super Rocket
1983 BMW R80/RT

Online Roger (Doomtrainbarx)

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Re: Which EasyCap do I need?
« Reply #28 on: 21.10. 2021 00:04 »
Advanced is "cable slack plunger down".
Points plate fastener should be bolt which also acts as base plate extractor when fully loosened.
1962 Super Rocket
2003 Kawasaki Z1000
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Offline Swarfcut

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Re: Which EasyCap do I need?
« Reply #29 on: 21.10. 2021 08:57 »
 Tom   The correct brass centre bolt for the brass points plate has a domed head to run against the carbon brush. Under the head the bolt has a fine taper to help support and centralise the points plate. Well worth sourcing the correct part. Have a look on the excellent Brightspark Magnetos webbo, Library Section. Later steel point plate uses a different profile steel bolt, having a different length, so don't use the wrong one. As for it extracting the points plate, that's a new one for me, my points usually simply pull off.

 Pulling the advance cable moves the cam in the same direction as the points rotate, so retards the ignition. So failed cable allows the return spring and plunger to move the cam to full advance and you can get home to get that sprained ankle fixed.....provided it will start on full advance.

  To set it all up, simply slack off the cable, set crank and armature, load the geartrain to take up the backlash, push the magneto drive gear onto the armature taper and hold everything still as the drive gear bolt is tightened.

 Swarfy.

 Additional. Thanks expressed to Julian for the following pictures of the two types of points plate bolts.