Charging issue

[Black Sheep]

Lost charging on the A10 recently. Light bulb test was OK, elderly 1st gen DVR2 had expired. Curiously, dynamo was then wrong polarity. Had to flash it back. Probably me fiddling with it... All OK now.   

[KiwiGF]

Another thunk. DVR2's are supplied either + or - earth. Would you have inadvertently flashed the dynamo to the other polarity causing the DVR2 to expire?
Cheers

,

If the DVR2 is not protected against a dynamo with wrong polarity it would be a very poor design! Is it really that susceptible to being damaged by that?

I would have expected the DVR2 to “ignore” any voltage of the wrong polarity coming from the armature and hence not supply any current to the field coil but who knows 

[Worty]

Jeez stanwhite    Think I'll have four more beers and go kick it over to see what happens.  At worst, my blurry eyes will see the ammeter needle move a bit which will probably be good enough for me.

Seriously, thanks for your time and effort!!!

[Dynamo Regulators Mike]

For a concise description of how the DVR2 works why not visit Dynamo Regulators Ltd, the DVR2 manufacturers website. The very first item on our Q & A page http://www.dynamoregulators.com/faq.php

A reversed polarised dynamo will just not start up with a DVR2. The regulator will not be damaged. The DVR2 product datasheet makes this clear http://www.dynamoregulators.com/documents/dvr2-data.pdf
top of p2.

Wortluck, it is pretty unusual for one of our regulators to work for a while, then not, then start up again. Sounds more like a poor connection issue to me, or dirty commutator perhaps. By all means contact me directly. Happy to test your DVR2 to rule a problem with it in or out.

[stanwhite]

Glad to have helped. Electrics is my game. A10s are not, so no doubt, I am gonna bend someone's ear sometime

[Worty]

Thanks Mike and everyone.

I did clean the commutator with meths and it was quite oily.  Have checked all wires.  I think I'll replace the battery and see what happens as the previous Westcos' intermittent faults caused havoc with the charging and electrics as a whole.  You'll probably find my rant elsewhere on the forum about lights coming on after a 10 second delay; ammeter readings all over the place, etc, etc.  If it does turn out to be the battery again, I'm going to throw the bloody thing very hard at something very hard.

[stanwhite]

Poor battery...

But don't dismiss it as dead, see how this fits: (25 watt headlamp, 6 watt tail, 6 watt pilot, 6V system. For a 12V system, the times may almost double for a 5 ampere hour battery).

If the lights work OK, and can do so for some time with the engine stopped, (sidelights only for over two hours, headlamp/tail light  for nearly an hour, assuming a 5 ampere hour battery) this tells you two things:

1) The battery was fully charged.  (It won't be now!)
2) It is in good condition.

If you get a charge showing with the engine running this is quite informative too!

1) The charge system is doing something, but MAY be out of control, see 3) below.

2) if a moderate charge that slowly reduces over time (no lights, long run), the battery is most likely OK, needed a charge, and has now got most of what it needs.

3) Higher charge that does not reduce, then providing the charge system is working normally, and bulbs don't keep blowing, the battery most likely has one bad cell. If you get a high charge rate all the time with no lights, check the voltage, as this COULD be a failed regulator. If you are out somewhere and you notice this, disconnect the "F" and "D" wires from the regulator and ride home... Disconnecting will give the battery, dynamo and lights a chance!

 Of course, turning the lights on, (engine off), and "rattling" the battery will possibly show any internal breaks. And if it does, then with my blessing, find something hard to throw it hard at!   

 Cheers,

 Stan.

[Worty]

Had a good old fiddle about tonight and it looks like a loose (yellow wire) connection on the dynamo.  Took the cover off and started to gently wiggle the wires, nothing at first then a proper charge with lights on and off.  Moved the wire around a bit and the charge disappeared, found out the yellow wire had popped out.  Put it back and pressed it in with a screwdriver and, hey presto, charge again.

Cleaned the brushes and commutator again with meths just to be sure.  Any suggestions on how to achieve a tighter fit for the yellow wire?

Prize goes to all those who suggested checking wiring and to stanwhite for his jawdropping analysis of the electrics - Full Marks.

As always, thanks to those who give their time to helping dotards like me

[stanwhite]

Real glad you got it fixed!

Rotten little ferrules...  That is what caught me out!

Cut back the insulation on the wires, and have enough clean strands to fold back around the outside of the ferrule, all the way back to the outer end, and then some... Fold it back into the open end of the ferrule, 1/8 inch should be enough.

This has three effects:

1) A good clean connection, whose diameter is a little more than just a loose ferrule stuffed in the dynamo hole. That should make it a tight fit. As a result of the slightly increased diameter due to the strands on the outside, the ferrule won't go in so far.

2) the "wrapping" over on the outer end of the last 1/8 inch of the strands slightly lengthens the ferrule.

3) The ferrule stays in place the next time you remove it...  (And you will, some time  )

As a result of the lengthening effects of doing the wire in this way, the paxolin ferrule retaining plate (a b****r to replace, or is it just me?) bears down on the ferrule, ensuring a good connection.

Cheers,

 Stan.

[Worty]

Paxolin ferrule   - holy s**t Stan  , you know your stuff - more thanks!!

[stanwhite]

Know my stuff?  I know electrics, but my A10 is the first Brit bike I have had in 42 years, and I am learning the hard way!

Just tried something new...  And managed to get a half amp charge at a slow tickover. Clever electronics. Not clever enough, unreliable, and there is a lot of development to do. Probably not gonna ride it in the dark anyway!

Glad it has worked out for you.

 Cheers,

 Stan.

[Worty]

Cheers Stan.  Electrics are not my thing but I can follow logical steps reasonably well.  For me, once I've seen something done, I can usually replicate it, but it's easier if I see it.  This is my first Brit bike too, so I'm learning exponentially.

Great to get the bike fixed, I can't stand it being off the road.  Bikes are for riding, not sitting in garages.

[stanwhite]

Been out on mine tonight, and at 40mph, headlight on, it is charging slightly, so I am happy with that.

Went down some country lanes, and was amazed at just how good the lights are (original pre-focus headlamp bulb, 6V). Very bright!

But...  I have been through all the wiring, replacing most of the connectors, and a lot of them were "not good"...!

Not likely to go 12V, H4, or LED. It works!

 Cheers,

 Stan.

[Greybeard]

Been out on mine tonight, and at 40mph, headlight on, it is charging slightly, so I am happy with that.
Went down some country lanes, and was amazed at just how good the lights are (original pre-focus headlamp bulb, 6V). Very bright!

I'm still using a 6v filament headlight, LED rear light. I found some 45/40w Lucas bulbs on eBay that are good. I have a new headlamp reflector, that helps. I also have a new loom with wired earth's.

[Worty]

6v for me too.  Want to stay as close to the original as possible.  If I wanted electronic ignition, 12v electrics, disc brakes, etc, etc, I'd have bought a japanese bike.  The only things not of original spec on mine are the horn, regulator, and battery/strap. Even the casing screws are cheeseheads.  These, of course, are the things that drive me nuts!