help wanted with a mystery :-)

[raymo]

 Hi folks,
First post, been lurking for a few days and pleased to see this is a very active and informative forum..

I have finally decided to complete my A10.... started 17 years ago :-)))

 Bit of history... my second bike and first 'big bike' was a cafe racer gold flash.. it got transformed into a tourer and was my only mode of transport before it went to fund a mini countryman I needed to travel to university...  kids.. work.. mortgage followed and I eventually got a B25 some 12 years later   then  a few years later ,when I mate offered me his running road rocket I bit his hand off..

He had been 'restoring it' over a few years and had eventually given up.. Put all the bits back on and got it running...


So I  now had a very tatty but running road rocket.. 1959 with matching engine and frame number according to the V5 mmmmmmm

 Strange as matching frame & engine numbers were only on A65s etc..

 Checked it out and sure enough frame and engine number were the same  (this is 1993 so not a great deal on the web!!! )..

 So.. Got Bacons book on restoring twins.. Even went and had a look as the beasts in the flesh at the National Motorcycle museum in Birmingham England..

 Frame number still a mystery , all document legal and have that number ??

 Had bought some valance mudguards and a nacelle as part of the restoration plan.. But when looking at the road rocket in that garb in the museum.. Did not really want to go that route?..

 And my bike looked ?wrong?? No full width hubs?, chrome mud guards and a RGS Siamese with silencer? .

 Anyway looked like some one had tried to make it look like a super rocket or RGS  so thought .. No will not go for a restoration (no time anyway) so thought  I will just  repair and restore what I have.. Tank is painted all black and peeling   but sound.. so put that to one side and  had a look at the frame.. It was tidy enough having been rubbed down and hand painted.. Quite a good job?. Checked it over for any damage.. None?. Looking at the frame number on the head stock gusset and it  just looked wrong.. The lettering did not look like the deep clear letters on my B25..

So stripped the paint off to find Gold braze!!!  Thought bollocks this had been repaired  So ground it back so I could see what mischief it was covering?. Turned out the original frame number had been filled with braze and the ?new one? stamped in!!!

 I wrote to a guy in the BSAOC and he confirmed my thought  that I had a 61 frame with a 62 big valve super rocket engine.. not a 59 RR  ..  Regarding the brazed over number , he said apparently dealers were issued with new frames with out numbers to allow accident repair/replacement , and this frame could have been from a dealer ?recycling a good  a frame??? 

 So I thought hay ho will just build a super rocket then J

Mag off to SRM  to refurbish.. dynamo to SRM to refurbish and convert to 12v

 Then checked the crank end float and it clunked like a good en.. So I am now looking at  a major job and have other priorities.. (Like kids going to uni J )  then bought a bandit to ride? so bits in boxes and bike  banished to the bottom of the to do list?.


 Well now its back on the top of the list  and this form has help rekindle my interest !!!


So the gory details

 Frame number is GA 1063  cant se the GA but can see 1063 when I did my CSI bit..

Engine number is DA10 R 4734   HC   ( it has got monster pistons  and even retarding the ignition with the manual lever it pinked and rattled.. not like my flash.. that was so quite)

 Alloy head marked CH59   57A17 KX

 Mono block carb with float chamber finned extension cover

Given the level of expertise on here what have I got?J

Thank for listening

Some first post eh

Cheers

Ray

[69Bonni]

Hi Ray

I am fairly new here too but not to bikes, welcome to the fray! you will find some Great guys and great information here! its amazing what you learn even though youve been hanging around bikes for years, and you'll always find someone here thats been there and done that!

Your story sounds familiar!!!
Personally im so busy my poor bikes suffer but hopefully it will change soon and i can actually get my workshop finished and start on my bikes again.

I think you have hit the nail on the head Ray and i have always said im amazed that any frame an engine numbers match after all these year and remembeing the antics we used to get up to as kids.

While matching or shall we say "correct" engine and frame numbers are desirable as far as value goes to most people it means nothing, Originality? Well its nice to know where it came from and what it was.... anyhow what is original?? is a Triton that was built in 1965 original? or one that was built in 1985?
Rocket Gold Star ... Original? the first ones were built by the ton up boys, Eddie Dow then the factory finally cottened on! and they came off the assembly line!

Anyhow enough waffle

The frame if you can really confirm that number sounds like an RGS frame, if its "GA" GA10's were RGS... GA10 XXX check here..
http://www.bsaownersclub.co.uk/Engine_Frame_Listing.html#1960
The GA 7's were the Super Rockets, Flashes and Spitfires from 60 0n.

Are you sure its not a GA7 1063? a 1960-61

Check my posting http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=1164.0
There you will see most of the frame differences between an RGS and say a Gold Flash of around the same age 61 - 62
Maybe it is a dealer recycled frame, but today people tend to do it the other way and try and con people its an RGS frame which is very desirable to RGS builders.

Engine wise it looks like a '62 Rocket engine
They stopped the RR in 57-58

So far so good eh! i think you have the basis for a nice bike (bit like me, and my RR basket case im gathering parts for).
I think the Key is enjoy what your doing... dont count the bills if you can spread out the cost (its frightening if you add up the bills as i did after the Bonnie rebuild)

Im sure you'll get lots of help and encouragement here!

Oh and Lets have some Pictures!!!

Regards

Steve

[raymo]

Hi Steve,

 Its not an RGS frame as it does not have the forged lower engine lugs.. the only section of the frame number I can  see  is 1063  so I guess its GA7 1063  which dates it  60-61  so I have a 62 engine in a 60-61 frame.. Not a 59 RR :-)

Will gets some pics up here

Know what you mean about originality, the old grandfathers brush issue,, 4 new handles and 3 new heads in its 70 year life.. Good as new 

 my drive is for a reliable neat running bike , not a museum piece , don?t get  me wrong I have a great respect for  the fastidious dogged ?it must be right?  builders as they maintain the baseline and show how far we have come.. But I want it mechanically sound. Safe and reliable? may go for a spitfire set-up as I like off roading

Know what you mean about the bills too , I spent £700  10 years ago just getting the  mag  dynamo and other bits?

First thing will be to collect all the bits ( I have a few other projects littering the place )

Then pull the rest of the motor to bits.. I pulled the timing side and the primary last time only.. These are stored with the mag.. ( a new centre stand and  the belt drive for the dyno etc?., also bought a new side stand? (the bike has a home made centre stand and home made stainless steel head lamp /fork shrouds with a chrome light?.in fact numerous non period fixing.

 Will have the bottom end  done by a reputable engine shop & have the timing side bush converted to the needle/ thrust bearing ( I rebuilt my flash and put a new bush in and did all by the book only to have it seize after 1000m ),

 SRM are a long way from me so any one know of any good folk in North East Scotland?

Will keep you posted 

Thanks Guys

[69Bonni]

Hi Ray

If you need any Info, Parts books etc etc, i can probably help, i also have a Road Rocket and a bit!! That im rebuilding as a RGS touring model (Funny i couldnt afford one back then and i still cant now )

I also have a variety of parts from another Flash basket case, and i will be building the bike from the collection so if your stuck for a part i may be able to help. Im looking for various bits still and i thing Bike Jumbles are cheaper than fleabay!

Im nearer to SRM but i dont think i have that amount of money for the Devimead conversion there are some people that do a similar job i understand, look here there might be a good engineering shop that might do it for you ....
http://www.geocities.com/beezabill/mybsaa10rollerconversion.htm

Hope this helps

Steve

[raymo]

Thanks Steve,

The end feed job is not cheap.. see me making the same mistake as before:-)

Plan b, I think  get it together.. get running and then see what really needs to be done

 the do it your selves end feed link is very interesting ...

When I had my Flash.. it was all bikes.. cafe racer ( big long plastic tank and a wee seat ).. tourer  old tank and seat back  on , clip ons replaces with Norton staights and a 22T front primary drive cog....  changed this to a 19T when touring the lakes ( pulled like a train but 80mph  tops.)

 folk forget that these bikes were always heavily used & abused and modified  and the guys that owned them has access to engineering facilities and tweaked them, So it may same a bit irreverent but I think I will throw it together then fix what breaks
:-)
 I recall when the splines stripped on the  drive side of my flash and I had no transport and no cash to replace the crank  a mate simply welded the sprocket to the shaft for me.... lasted while I sorted a replacement crank out ..

cheers

Ray

[69Bonni]

That brings back memories!

All held together with Checker tape and jubilee clips!

I think a lot of the problem with the timing side bush, or at least some of it was poor quality bushes and not reamed correctly. I dont know how much SRM charge last time i looked about £300, I guess thats peace of mind but i think i'll worry about that when the engine next needs a rebuild.

I did think about fitting a pressure gauge permanently that would give you a good idea that something wasnt right before it got too nasty!

I remember my 3TA i dumped 500 barrels and pistons on, it was great for a while.... but ended with lots of broken bits! and ended up with a 350 engine back in it from a scrappy to get rid of it. I can remember my Fathers words ringing in my ears!

Cheers
Steve

[LJ.]

SO! The evidence is clear... It was YOU guys who ruined bikes from the yesteryear days that we mere youngsters are now having to fix!

 

[raymo]

SO! The evidence is clear... It was YOU guys who ruined bikes from the yesteryear days that we mere youngsters are now having to fix!

 

 we kept them beating.. and they are still around for you yooffs to  appreciate and learn basic engineering :-)

ahh the Jubilee clip  if we had used more of them we would still have the Empire

[tombeau]

Hei Ray,

Good to have you here.
Go on get some pics up so we can have a look at what you've got yourself into
Cheers,
Iain

[rocket man]

hi ray welcome to the fold sounds like you have the parts to make a very nice bike with
and i would go for the needle roller end feed conversion its a great mod
i had mine done or you could get your end bush from srm it might last longer
and also think about getting a sump kit with drain bolt and magnet on
so you dont have to keep taking the sump plate off
dave

[69Bonni]

   "SO! The evidence is clear... It was YOU guys who ruined bikes from the yesteryear days that we mere youngsters are now having to fix!"

Not guilty your Honour, well not strictly true .... Dont worry you know what they say "Chickens always come home to roost!" and i have had my own back several times!

You can always tell one of my old bikes it'll still have the Checker (Go Faster tape) under the paint somewhere

BTW did you know that that black and white checker tape will make a B40 reach 200mph! and a A65T beat any japanese bike (someone tells me there coming you know! and they have Electric starters and the gears on the wrong side AND they dont leak pie in the sky i know, personally i dont think japanese bikes will catch on here). They reckon petrol might go up to 6/- a gallon soon too!

Good job i kept giving them a squirt of Redex then else theyd be shot by now, My Dad says hes going give me a thick ear if get another puncture bumping up the kerb and he'll lock the bike in the coal shed.

Anyhow its not my fault i keep getting my Brothers old cast offs and he thrashes them to bits! Im hoping to get his old Thunderbird when he gets his Rocket Gold Star after Christmas.

Ah Happy Dayz!

Now about that Engine Bodge im now De Hermatiting this DA10 engine that some nasty little spotty erk in the sixtys plastered with Hermatite! Serves me right! Yea guess so, but i didnt know any better then.

Maybe we could all club together and get a bulk discount from SRM for 10 devimead conversions!

Steve

[raymo]

some pics  sorry used my phone and had to down size to post

[rocket man]

i think you have a good start ove a great bike there

dave

[raymo]

hi ray welcome to the fold sounds like you have the parts to make a very nice bike with
and i would go for the needle roller end feed conversion its a great mod
i had mine done or you could get your end bush from srm it might last longer
and also think about getting a sump kit with drain bolt and magnet on
so you dont have to keep taking the sump plate off
dave

 Hi Dave .. well get around to the dreaded bush conversion , but will pull the toopend off and see what mischeif is in there.. its not run for 15 years and was as rough as a bears idiot...  guess I will just have to complete the build this time  
 have posed some pick of where its been lurking for the past few years...

 the more I trawl through this site the more I remember how much I liked my A10.. ( I will turn to the dark side as the big HONDA is a gem :-))
and its house trained

[trevinoz]

Is the frame possibly a CA7? You appear to have half width hubs front and rear.
Trev.