Author Topic: BSA A10 Amal 389 Series Monobloc carby - fountain of fuel from the top!  (Read 3773 times)

Offline twr7cx

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 have a BSA A10 Goldenflash (1961 originally sold in South Africa) that has been in storage for the last thirty years. Currently putting back together. This morning I put some fuel into the tank in order to check the condition of the fuel taps and identify any leaks. It showed that the tap on both sides is leaking (no surprise there, I had already ordered replacements), but what was a suprise is the amount of fuel spraying straight out of the vent on the top of the carby [small short video below]:

http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z343/twr7cx/th_IMG_2813_zps393fdb9f.jpg

It looks like it is a spring loaded vent on the top of the carby, but I can't imagine that the fuel is meant to just spray out like that!

As far as I know, the specs are:

Quote
Amal 389 Series Monobloc carby
Main Jet Option
Main Jet - Size 250 (376/100-250)
Needle Jet Option
Needle Jet - Size 106 (376/072-106)
Pilot Jet Option
Pilot Jet - 30cc (376/076-30)


I found this picture of the carby breakdown:
http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z343/twr7cx/IMG_2814_zpsade9874e.jpg

Any ideas?

------------------------
adm edit: see
http://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=2545.msg55083#msg55083

Offline Brian

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That spring loaded "vent" is actually the tickler. You can push it down which opens the float valve and lets fuel in when you first start the bike on a cold morning.

Fuel should not come out it like that, that shows its "flooding"

You need to pull some of the carby apart to clean it all.

First remove the small bolt on top of the part the fuel line attaches to, you will then be able to lift that part off and there will "should" be a plastic guaze filter under it, clean the filter.

Next remove the three screws on the side of the carby and take the plate on the side off. Behind this you will see the float and a needle sitting on top of it, you need to remove the float and needle and blow air back up through where the needle goes, thats where the needle "seats". Once you have cleaned all this put it all back together and try it again. Be carefull not to lose the small brass spacer that goes on the outside of the shaft the float pivots on. Take carefull notice of how it all comes apart so you can reassemble it all the same way.

All this is only if you just want to get the bike to run. If you intend to ride the bike then you need to remove the carby and dismantle it and clean it properly and fit new gaskets etc and probably a new "needle". The needle in it is probably a solid brass one or maybe plastic, you can get brass ones now that have a rubber "Viton" tip and work much better.

Online Triton Thrasher

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Sticky float, sticky needle, dirt under needle seat. Often fixed by whacking the carburettor with a stick.

Can also be caused by idiots losing the float spindle bush or fitting it inboard of the  float.

On new carburettors, there can be a casting rag fouling the float.

Your thinking the tickler is a vent makes me wonder what handbook or manual you have.

Offline twr7cx

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Popped the side plate off the carby (three flat head screws) and had a look. Could see the fuel rushing past the needle. I replaced the needle with a rubber tipped brass needle and a plastic float.

I used my finger to hold the float up and the fuel still poured through.
Removed the float and held just the needle up and it sealed, no fuel passing.

Tried with another needle and float (have an old bass float and plastic needle that I removed from it) - same story.

I refitted the float and then noticed that it is the tickler that is stopping the float from going all the way up - it seems to be coming into the bowl too far! When I remove the tickler and hold the float up, no fuel passes.

Not sure how/why the tickler is doing this though. The spring on it is good and holds it up all the way. It doesn't have a washer under it, so maybe I can fit one or two to space it upwards.

Offline twr7cx

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Not sure how or why, but after pulling it apart of refitting numerous times it has eventually worked properly and the float is pushing the needle up high enough to seal off. I cannot see any difference in the setup, but it works, so I'll leave it be!

Offline Brian

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Glad you found the problem.

Obviously the tickler shouldnt do that so there must be something not right with it. At least now if it does it again you will know what to look for.

Offline PaulC

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I love this forum!

Checked out my Super Rocket yesterday in preparation for today's Distinguished Gentleman's ride in Oxford. All OK.  Go out to start it this morning and I get exactly this same problem. Fuel fountain from the tickler. What to do other than turn off fuel? I know; search the issue on the forum - and I found this post.

Followed the advice, cleaned everything as suggested and hey presto, normal service is resumed!

Thank you to one and all!

Paul

A10 Super Rocket 1959
Norton International Model 40 1949
Triumph Thruxton R 2016
Ducati Multistrada 1200S Touring 2014


Offline KiwiGF

  • Last had an A10 in 1976, in 2011 it was time for my 2nd one. It was the project from HELL (but I learned a lot....)
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Hi Paul, it's good to have confirmed the value of past threads/posts.

I'll add a bit more to it, the tickler also performs the part of a breather for the float bowl, as fuel goes in air is displaced through the tickler.

Whilst it is not common I'm sure.....the tickler can become blocked (a bug got in there whilst the carb was in storage in my case). This caused the bike to run for a short period then stop......and had me puzzled for quite a while, annoying as the bike was ready in all respects for its first run after resto!

I remained puzzled until I did the "cling film instead of float bowl cover trick" and saw what was going on with the float level.

So whilst the carb is apart I suggest the tickler is also checked to make sure the breather side of it is clear and working.
New Zealand

1956 A10 Golden Flash  (1st finished project)
1949 B31 rigid “400cc”  (2nd finished project)
1968 B44 Victor Special (3rd finished project)
2001 GL1800 Goldwing, well, the wife likes it
2009 KTM 990 Adventure, cos it’s 100% nuts

Offline Viking

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RR, SR and RGS have a tendency to do the fuel fountain trix !
When fitted with a Amal monobloc

Because the Carb is slant at an angle more steep then the iron head A7/A10.

The slant angle cause the float need to loos sealing pressure on its seat because of drag in the needle seating housing.

The effect is magnified by fuel vax and resin in today’s fuel, mixed with biofuel. The light contents of the fuel evaporate and the resin etc. remain in the carb and coat it internally leaving a sticky layer of “fun”

The rescue is dismantling the carb, clean all surfaces rigorously with carb cleaner, assisted with a toothbrush etc.

Renew the float and float needle.

A trick to see if resin still is a problem: Open the fuel tap. If it still over floats, turn off the fuel tap. Start the engine and turn on the fuel. Vibrations from “the motor” can seal the float needle in the seal and “it works”
 
But the same issue repeats itself, starting the bike next time after a few days standing still…

The problem is roughness inside needle seat housing. Fine for old time fuel. Not smooth enough for modern fuel.
 
I have discovered the issue on four BSA bikes with alu. heads / slant angle carb fitting. The problem can be cured cleaning and polishing the needle seat housing inside with emery cloth 2000 grain.

The polishing minimize drag on the float needle.