Author Topic: Long stroke valve opening and closing angles??  (Read 1308 times)

Offline jaffy

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Good morning ! Having recently acquired an A7 long stroke in big lumps, the engine reported to have been partially rebuilt, I decided to have a look inside anyway as the previous owner couldn't give a guarantee that the sludge trap had been cleaned out. (couldn't remember as the machining had been done 50 years ago) On inspection I found all clear with the crank except that the con rod bolts hadn't been torqued down evenly. And the piston ring gaps too big. The crank had been reground, barrel had been re-bored and a new can shaft fitted. Proceding with caution, on re-assembly I found a selection of timing gears(just over two complete sets) the two camshaft pinion key ways different in relationship to the position of the breather timing peg and the crankshaft pinions timing marks differ by one tooth. Anyway, having  played around with the timing gears the best I can come up with (using a dial gauge, set over each tappet and a degree disc on the crank shaft) are as follows:

       Left cylinder: Inlet Opening - 18 degrees BTDC
                               Inlet Closing -  70 degrees ABDC
                               Ex Opening - 60 degrees BBDC
                               Ex Closing - 22 degrees ATDC

    Right cylinder: Inlet Opening - 18 degrees BTDC
                               Inlet Closing - 75 degrees ATDC
                               Ex Opening - 65 degrees BBDC
                               EX Closing - 25 degrees ATDC

 Is there anyone out there who can throw some light on these readings as they don't seem to conform to any of the cams listed in the service sheets. Having asked the previous owner if he was sure it was a long stroke cam that  he fitted, he told me that ' they looked the same' and that the old, worn camshaft had been discarded. There are no numbers or markings on the new camshaft. Any help or pointers would be much appreciated. Thankyou in anticipation.

Online Brian

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Re: Long stroke valve opening and closing angles??
« Reply #1 on: 01.06. 2015 03:58 »
These are the figures for the Longstroke motor. If you are getting different figures on left and right cylinders something is horribly wrong with your camshaft.

Longstroke motor   (up to 1950)        std cam 67-695     A7 only                        
                        
Inlet        opens  24d           BTDC                         
      closes  65d           ABDC                  
                        
Exhaust      opens   60d          BBDC                  
      closes   21.5d       ATDC                  

Offline jaffy

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Re: Long stroke valve opening and closing angles??
« Reply #2 on: 01.06. 2015 10:13 »
Thanks Brian for your input, I have the long stroke settings from BSA's service sheets. As anyone out there measured the angles (opening, closing of the valves using a degree disc) if so where the readings exactly the same as the BSA data or a bit more hit and miss like I found. I can appreciate there being a bit of wear in the gear train and taking into account a degree or to of human error but the check was carried out meticulously and a second opinion sought who came up with the same figures I did. From the data I can see that the short stroke engine only differs up to 6 degrees either way

Online chaterlea25

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Re: Long stroke valve opening and closing angles??
« Reply #3 on: 01.06. 2015 13:47 »
Hi All,
A thou or two difference in the tappet clearances or a slightly different profile on the followers would show up as the differences found

A more accurate method is to calculate the lobe centres( fully open position) from the book figures and than check your cam timing to see if they are correct
Find the full open position of the valve (it will remain almost fully open over a few degrees) and then the degree figures where the valve has closed 10 thou either side of fully open,
Halfway between these positions will be true lobe centre

After all that I think that your engine will run fine with the figures you have found  *????* *????*

HTH
John
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Offline jaffy

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Re: Long stroke valve opening and closing angles??
« Reply #4 on: 03.06. 2015 08:20 »
Thanks John, Yes, I've recently been in touch with three independent engine reconditioners who advised me not to worry as the readings I was getting where pretty good.Regarding setting the timing up: When you talk about setting the valve timing on a fully open cam lobe, suppose we are taking the lobes to be symmetrical about their mid point, right? Then halve the number of degrees the valve is open (taken from the service sheets) which should be the point where that particular valve should be fully open as I can find a exact figure in the sheets.

Online chaterlea25

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Re: Long stroke valve opening and closing angles??
« Reply #5 on: 03.06. 2015 22:58 »
Hi Jaffy
Yup  *smile*

John
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Offline jaffy

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Re: Long stroke valve opening and closing angles??
« Reply #6 on: 04.06. 2015 09:25 »
Yes, with the valve fully open method I'm able to get within max of 4° of the calculated setting and 1•5° descrepency between valves, or lobes.which I'm thinking ashould be fine.
 Now all that I need to find is an advance and retard pinion, not the one on e bay for £200, anyone have a spair one or know where I might get hold of one. Cheers

Offline jaffy

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Re: Long stroke valve opening and closing angles??
« Reply #7 on: 25.06. 2015 07:44 »
Managed to get hold of a good pinion.......thanks all