Author Topic: A10 barrels  (Read 1662 times)

Online sean

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A10 barrels
« on: 23.11. 2023 02:03 »
I saw thunder engineering was making new barrel for triumphs , I e mailed them and asked if there were any plans to make new barrels for a10s .
They apparently dont think there would be enough demand On Wed, Nov 22, 2023 at 1:59 AM Steve Campbell <stevecampbell@thunderengineering.co.uk> wrote:
Hello Sean
 
Thank you for your enquiry, unfortunately I don't have any plans to make A10 barrels as I don't think there is enough call for them.
 
Regards Steve On Wed, Nov 22, 2023 at 1:59 AM Steve Campbell <stevecampbell@thunderengineering.co.uk> wrote:
Hello Sean
 
Thank you for your enquiry, unfortunately I don't have any plans to make A10 barrels as I don't think there is enough call for them.
 
Regards Steve

Online limeyrob

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Re: A10 barrels
« Reply #1 on: 16.12. 2023 11:50 »
Just did a search on UK e-bay and there are 4 sets of barrels in good condition in the £250-£300 range and one set sleeved to std at £450.
It looks like in the UK there is enough supply for sleeving so there's little demand for new barrels.
My recent purchase came with a spare set of barrels and pistons chucked in the parts box so I don't think they are seen as hugely rare.
I see you are in Canada - your best bet is to get someone to carry them for you or do a holiday to the UK.  My father got a Harley from the US to the UK in luggage - it took several trips, he never would tell me how he got the frame over but it can be done.  I sold an A10 dynamo to a guy in Norway for £20 then found the post was £60, got a mate in oil and gas to take it on his next trip and post it in Norway. (With very strict instructions to answer NO to "has anyone give you anything to carry.." *smile*)
Slough 59 GF/SR

Online sean

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Re: A10 barrels
« Reply #2 on: 16.12. 2023 15:01 »
I have my barrells sleeved back to std….. I messaged the company in the hope they might consider making replacement barrels for A 10 as no one has taken on the job .
Lot around for triumphs but no replacements for our A 10s.
Thunder engineering said they didnt think there would be enough interest 😉 I dont know how many a10 models were ever produced but if someone came up with a set of alloy barrels for my A10 i would buy them .

Offline Kickaha

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Re: A10 barrels
« Reply #3 on: 16.12. 2023 19:28 »
I dont know how many a10 models were ever produced but if someone came up with a set of alloy barrels for my A10 i would buy them .

I had priced it up as around 3k NZD to have them done as a one off with Nikasil bores, probably around $2200 NZD with cast sleeves

The casting itself isn't that expensive, it's the pattern making and machining where all the cost is
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Offline BSA_54A10

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Re: A10 barrels
« Reply #4 on: 18.12. 2023 03:42 »
Goes like this fellas.
a minmum economic batch size for casting alone is in the order of 200 to 500
minimum economic batch size for machining is inthe order of 500 to 1000
World wide demand is in the order of 10 to 20  / year, very much depending upon price .
Finished barrels would have a cost price in the order of $ 500 each on the shop floor
If you made 500 barrels to get the cheapest price then we are talking $ 250,000
so that is $ 250,000 sitting on the floor before we take into account storeage aand we are looking at at least 30 years to sell then all.
From a business point of view I can make any one of 10 million items that will be sold within a year and return a much hgher profit .
That is the simple economics of it .

So we need to get a 3D printing business to make at least if not 5 sets of cope & drag patterns for whatever grade of CI we want to use ≈$10,000
Then we take them to a foundry that is running way under capacity with the instructions that when ever you have some ( specify grade ) of CI left over in a melt run it out on our patterns please .
This will yield a steady supply of raw castings at the lowest price possible .
Then we need to find a macine shop that is also under capacity and ask them to macine these barrels if & when they have nothing to do as a loss reducer .
Of course this means they all must be paid for COD the day thay are ready .

That may knock 50,000 tp 75,000 off the cost price.
How big is the collective wallet of this forum, remembering we then have the problem of cranks , rods & pistons .

Way back on a different forum members were whinging about the lack of A65 pistons & it was John healy , a dealer back in the days & still in business who set people strait.
From memory he said world wide demand for A 65 pistons were in the order of 20 pairs a year .
I got some oversize forged pistons made for my M20 & B34 , they were $800 a piece and only that "cheap" because a batch of 50 were made of which the last few took over 2 years to shift.
This is why bespoke companies like GPM & JP are around and even then you are looking at $ 300 to $ 500 for a cast piston.

Vintage steel just quoted $2850 + freight for the mudguards & stays for my B2 , they were 3 & 5 shillings in 1927 plus I am looking at 2 years minimum unless I want to pay near double that for a rush order and when finished the round tank miht fetch $ 8,000 on a good day .
 
Bike Beesa
Trevor

Online chaterlea25

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Re: A10 barrels
« Reply #5 on: 19.12. 2023 14:30 »
Hi All
Some years ago I believe SRM had a batch of barrels cast, the trouble was that a high % were faulty but the foundry charged for them anyway.  When BSA were casting any duds were just thrown back into the 're melting pile...
A few Years ago one of the members CNC machines a set of alloy barrels for a scrambler project (Julian?)
I wonder if he would produce more or sell the CNC program so others could get a batch made??

John

mod edit: this be the one https://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=6024.0
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Offline Klaus

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Re: A10 barrels
« Reply #6 on: 19.12. 2023 19:58 »
It was about 4 years ago when I thought about having an A10 cylinder cast from aluminum. My friend and I precisely measured a cracked one and put it in a CAD program. We wanted to offer a complete set with Nicasil and pistons and also the cam followers. The A10 cylinder is very complicated to make a mold. The mold alone would have cost around 25,000 euros. The casting with machining and Nicasil coating, the two pistons cost over 2000 euros each for a batch of 50 cylinders. That's a lot of money that you have to spend, even if you eventually sell the 50 pieces. Too much for my pocket.

cheers Klaus


If you think, everything is under control, you are not fast enought.

BSA DB34 Goldstar, BSA A10 Road Rocked, BSA A7 Shooting Star, BSA M33, BSA M24, Kawa W650

Offline coater87

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Re: A10 barrels
« Reply #7 on: 19.12. 2023 22:54 »
 It would be great to have good quality, brand new parts available for all my old stuff. But to be honest a good portion of the fun for me is scrounging parts for my old cars/trucks/motorcycle.

  But oh it can be frustrating when you are only a few parts away and none can be found. *pull hair out*

Lee
Central Wisconsin in the U.S.

Offline zurferjoe

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Re: A10 barrels
« Reply #8 on: 29.12. 2023 15:15 »
Ive made the casting moulds and made a couple of barrels , they work , but Ive now got to alter them to put A65 cam followers , different center positions , the A65 followers are cheaper to buy . Ive been asked to make them availiable with Nikasil and Iron liners.Will get back to you all when Ive road tested both types. Its also possible to raise the CCs to 750.
The older you get , the faster you were !First picture of the BSA A10 alloy barrel !!

Online sean

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Re: A10 barrels
« Reply #9 on: 29.12. 2023 15:38 »
Ive made the casting moulds and made a couple of barrels , they work , but Ive now got to alter them to put A65 cam followers , different center positions , the A65 followers are cheaper to buy . Ive been asked to make them availiable with Nikasil and Iron liners.Will get back to you all when Ive road tested both types. Its also possible to raise the CCs to 750.
they look great where are you located ?
keep us up dated on developments .

Online muskrat

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Re: A10 barrels
« Reply #10 on: 29.12. 2023 18:31 »
G'day zurferjoe.
Did you end up using them at Bonneville?

A previous thread on the subject for those that missed it.  https://www.a7a10.net/forum/index.php?topic=15404.0
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS racer now a A10CR, '78 XT500, '83 CB1100F, 88 HD FXST, 2000 CBR929RR ex Honda Australia Superbike .
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Online limeyrob

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Re: A10 barrels
« Reply #11 on: 29.12. 2023 18:43 »
I've had an A65 follower fail and they also wear on the shaft whereas I've never had a problem with the A10 design.  The A10 follower has a much bigger surface taking the loads.  If you plan to run the followers in the ally I would think you could get very fast wear with the A65 type, OK if you put bushes in, easier to bush the A65 type than the A10.  Is that the logic?
Slough 59 GF/SR

Offline Beeza

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Re: A10 barrels
« Reply #12 on: 30.12. 2023 06:36 »
That’s fantastic work Harry, I would also be very interested in buying this set up for my 1954 Road Rocket LSR salt machine, I currently have a sleeved 7 fin (extra thick flange), round barrel A10 with 3/8 barrel studs (double hex nuts).
I also have M10 high tensile, fine thread, socket head, head bolts, which I would envision using the same head bolts but running them into an insert, either recoil or kipp insert if edge distance allows.
The only thing that would concern me is that those barrels would offer up way too much cooling (for LSR), but that’s no big deal as we can counter that, then again when it comes to LSR no engine ever gets to a high enough operating temp.
I’d also be tempted to get back to Germany and personally pick them up, I have a lot of family around Bavaria.
Thomas
62 A10 BVSR, 62 A10 RGS, 53 SFS, 57 G/Flash-black one

Offline zurferjoe

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Re: A10 barrels
« Reply #13 on: 30.12. 2023 15:14 »
Will do , it all started with my Bonneville racing project , but as the weather seems to be a big gamble there , Ive pushed on with making the casting boxes to industry standard as the response , alone from the A10 forum , has been  very promising .I will keep updates as soon as I build a couple of my engines and give a  thorough testing and thrashing !!  Im a Brit  based in Germany ,Im here for the weather oh ! And the beer !!
The older you get , the faster you were !First picture of the BSA A10 alloy barrel !!

Offline rocker21

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Re: A10 barrels
« Reply #14 on: 02.01. 2024 12:10 »
i am interested, keep us all informed of progress
1960 A7S motoguzzi Monza 500, motoguzzi V7III special, new triumph speed 400
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