Author Topic: Checking crankcases  (Read 609 times)

Online limeyrob

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Checking crankcases
« on: 24.11. 2023 22:30 »
Bike's PO has thrown me a curveball.  Engine is "rebuilt" with ground crank, new mains and big ends, all built up but no run, but end float was 12 thou.  Pulled it down and while checking the cases over I see they are not a pair.  Its come with a set of good cases that match (perhaps this is why?) so I'm going to build the engine on the matching cases but I'm suspicious as to why they are not used as they match the log book.
So I've gone over them with a fine tooth comb and can't see anything wrong.  What should I be looking for to be sure they are serviceable?
Thanks
Slough 59 GF/SR

Online KiwiGF

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Re: Checking crankcases
« Reply #1 on: 25.11. 2023 06:45 »
Bike's PO has thrown me a curveball.  Engine is "rebuilt" with ground crank, new mains and big ends, all built up but no run, but end float was 12 thou.  Pulled it down and while checking the cases over I see they are not a pair.  Its come with a set of good cases that match (perhaps this is why?) so I'm going to build the engine on the matching cases but I'm suspicious as to why they are not used as they match the log book.
So I've gone over them with a fine tooth comb and can't see anything wrong.  What should I be looking for to be sure they are serviceable?
Thanks

Unmatched cases are fine if machined properly eg crank and cam line bored (uf reqd), and sump and cylinder faces do not have steps.

Common fault with cases include oversize/oval timing side housing, obviously worn bushes.
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1956 A10 Golden Flash  (1st finished project)
1949 B31 rigid “400cc”  (2nd finished project)
1968 B44 Victor Special (3rd finished project)
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Offline Swarfcut

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Re: Checking crankcases
« Reply #2 on: 25.11. 2023 09:46 »
 Clincher is the camshaft bushes as a basic third indicator. First is the obvious matching case numbers stamped at the front. Look for unmolested and clear markings. OK if scuffed and dented a little, but consistent with age and style. Next see how the cases line up at the cylinder base, usual to find a small circular inspection stamp on the centre join. Should match perfectly, as should the sump plate face.

 Next see if you have three good camshaft bushes, try the cam in each half, checking for ease of fit and wear on the bushes. Deep breath, assemble the cam into the cases, draw together, see if it turns. Good so far, nip up the fixings, cam should still turn easily, and you have saved a great deal of hassle and cash. Cam endfloat will be a good clunk, but this is of no consequence at this stage.

As KW says, unmatched casings can be machined to be used again but all engineering time and skill costs money and a set of rough looking but sound matched cases are a better option. Cracks can be welded, threads fixed at a lower cost than workshop engineering expertise.

 Swarfy.

Online limeyrob

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Re: Checking crankcases
« Reply #3 on: 25.11. 2023 11:35 »
Many thanks.  The cases on the engine do have a slight step which is what alerted me.  The spare matched set still have a timing side bush in and its a good fit, cam and idler bearings seem to have the same or less play than the new ones that seem to have been recently fitted in the mismatched cases.
I'll make up a tool a press (pull) out the new TS bush and swap it over and I'll fit a new DS roller and swap the crank over.  The whole thing makes no sense.  Why put all the new bearings in the mismatched cases?  I've looked very carefully for a fault with the spare set and can't find any, my fear and reason for post is that I build it up then find why they were not used but the TS bush is not oval and the cam bearings are in line so I'm feeling happier.
Slough 59 GF/SR

Offline terryg

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Re: Checking crankcases
« Reply #4 on: 25.11. 2023 12:18 »
Completely agree it's a puzzle why original, matched cases have been sidelined.
Perhaps too obvious but was there an oiling issue? A blocked oilway now further blocked by a broken drill bit?  A problem with the pump mounting or PRV housing?
None of these is likely to be beyond resolving but, I suspect like you, I’d be happier knowing the real reason for switching cases.
Terry
'57 'SR', '59 SR, '63 RGS

Offline mugwump

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Re: Checking crankcases
« Reply #5 on: 25.11. 2023 16:21 »
Are the matching cases original to the bike, or perhaps acquired later but just not got round to fitting.

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Online limeyrob

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Re: Checking crankcases
« Reply #6 on: 25.11. 2023 19:39 »
They match the log book which makes even less sense. The non-matching cases have an illegible extra character in front of the numbers and I'm wondering if this was a plan to create yet another RGS clone.  It began as a '59 Gold Flash - probably, its got a 356 cam.  Pistons are 9:1, head is ally and at some stage its been very heavily chromed, every nut and bolt, engine plates, head stock, tool box, oil tank, even the head steady and battery tray.  Most of it is corroded now but some cleans up enough to be used as a scruffy but usable bike.  Its got a later TLS front brake and brake lug fits properly in the lug so someone knew what they were doing at some stage in the past.  Its also got Goldie style guards, stays and chain guard and a 2 - 1 exhaust.  I think it got built as a cafe racer as it came with clip-ons (my pet hate) and a home made ally top yoke.
With so many mods I'm reconciled to taking it all apart and checking everything!
Slough 59 GF/SR

Offline CheeserBeezer

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Re: Checking crankcases
« Reply #7 on: 26.11. 2023 12:14 »
The first thing I would check is the main bearing housing which is the one thing that isn't obvious by sight. I've come across quite a few crankcases where the main bearing isn't tight enough and spins when the engine gets hot, eventually wearing the housing out. The main bearing outer case should be an interference fit when cold, but should drop in snugly at about 180 degrees C.

Offline chaterlea25

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Re: Checking crankcases
« Reply #8 on: 26.11. 2023 12:28 »
Hi Rob,
It is a bad idea/ assumption that you can change the ts bus from one case to the other *ex*
The bush Must  be line bored from the main roller bearing side..
The bush from the non paired cases will not be in line if fitted  *ex*
The way to go is to bore the paired bush housing true and round.. then fit a custom made bush, and line bore it to suit the crank..

John
1961 Super Rocket
1963 RGS (ongoing)

Online limeyrob

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Re: Checking crankcases
« Reply #9 on: 26.11. 2023 12:57 »
Thanks for the heads up on that.  I've changed these successfully in the past without boring - the replacements came ready sized, this is when the BSA part was steel with a liner, but I will be taking a lot of care with the shoulder on the bush and case.  I'm surprised by how sharp some of the edges are on the new parts, very  likely to raise burrs so I'll gently stone all the parts. 
When I was 16 I had a plunger Flash combo (allowed on a provisional license). It (or my thrashing) seized the LH cylinder and broke the bottom off the barrel.  I rebuilt the engine in my mum's kitchen and fitted the new TS bush using boiling water and a large hide mallet.  I took a lot of care but even so it was a bit rough and ready.  Just checked DVLA and that bike is showing as still on the road!!  I wonder if its still on that bearing? If the owner of OYU 303 is out there PM me and I'll post you an embarrassing picture of me and the bike *smile*
Slough 59 GF/SR