Author Topic: Difference between A10 and A65 8" single sided brakes?  (Read 1223 times)

Offline wynnen

  • Active
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2022
  • Posts: 3
  • Karma: 0
I have a particularly inefficient 8" single sided front brake on my A10.  Having taken the shoes out today, I notice that my bike is fitted with the later A65 shoes which are wider than than the earlier A10 shoes.

The parts book says:
A10 shoes are 67-5558 or 67-5601 and are 1 3/8" wide
A65 shoes are 68-5541 and are 1 5/8" wide

Both brakes use the same brake plate.

My question is, do both the A10 and the A65 use the same hub?  I cannot find a part number or casting number on my hub so I can't say for certain which I have - but it is deep enough to take the wider A65 brakes shoes. I am guessing that the A10 brake hub would be shallower as it uses narrower shoes - is that correct?

Offline Greybeard

  • Jack of all trades; master of none.
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2011
  • Posts: 9949
  • Karma: 49
Re: Difference between A10 and A65 8" single sided brakes?
« Reply #1 on: 30.01. 2022 18:49 »
Those brakes can be excellent so worth getting sorted.
Greybeard (Neil)
2023 Gold Star
Supporter of THE DISTINGUISHED GENTLEMAN'S RIDE https://www.gentlemansride.com

Warwickshire UK


A Distinguished Gentleman Riding his 1955 Plunger Golden Flash

Online JulianS

  • 1962 A10
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2017
  • Posts: 1437
  • Karma: 29
Re: Difference between A10 and A65 8" single sided brakes?
« Reply #2 on: 30.01. 2022 18:58 »
The A10 A7 and some B and M and the Goldie version and the 1964/1965 A65 hubs are the same depth. 1966 on deeper.

The Golden Flash hub had no fins on it. The Goldie and RGS and both the A65 versions were finned.

First class brakes when fitted with decent linings.

Offline muskrat

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • **
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 10977
  • Karma: 131
  • Lithgow NSW Oz
    • Shoalhaven Classic Motorcycle Club Inc
Re: Difference between A10 and A65 8" single sided brakes?
« Reply #3 on: 30.01. 2022 19:18 »
G'day wynnen.
Brakes only slow you down *ex*
Now get over to Intro's and give us your story.  *welcome*
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS racer now a A10CR, '78 XT500, '83 CB1100F, 88 HD FXST, 2000 CBR929RR ex Honda Australia Superbike .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline BSA_54A10

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 2544
  • Karma: 37
    • BSA National
Re: Difference between A10 and A65 8" single sided brakes?
« Reply #4 on: 31.01. 2022 07:07 »
Goes like this
The sports versions get uprated brakes because Musky types want to ride very fast  *whistle* *whistle*
When the brakes get uprated the previous high performance brake gets put onto cooking versions .
This cycle gets repeated at infinitum
Similar thing with forks
Bike Beesa
Trevor

Offline muskrat

  • Global Moderator
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • **
  • Join Date: Jul 2009
  • Posts: 10977
  • Karma: 131
  • Lithgow NSW Oz
    • Shoalhaven Classic Motorcycle Club Inc
Re: Difference between A10 and A65 8" single sided brakes?
« Reply #5 on: 31.01. 2022 07:54 »
Goes like this
The sports versions get uprated brakes because Musky types want to ride very fast  *whistle* *whistle*

Good one Trevor.
 I raced the 57 A7SS with STANDARD Ariel brakes for 9 years and still got them in 20 years later. *lol*
Cheers
'51 A7 plunger, '57 A7SS racer now a A10CR, '78 XT500, '83 CB1100F, 88 HD FXST, 2000 CBR929RR ex Honda Australia Superbike .
Australia
Muskys Plunger A7

Offline wynnen

  • Active
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2022
  • Posts: 3
  • Karma: 0
Re: Difference between A10 and A65 8" single sided brakes?
« Reply #6 on: 31.01. 2022 11:17 »
The A10 A7 and some B and M and the Goldie version and the 1964/1965 A65 hubs are the same depth. 1966 on deeper.

The Golden Flash hub had no fins on it. The Goldie and RGS and both the A65 versions were finned.

First class brakes when fitted with decent linings.

Thanks for the info.  Mine is fitted to an RGS.  I ad assumed it had the correct hub, but as it has the wider shoes and a deep enough drum to take the wide shoes, i guess it must be an A65 hub.  Better get some decent wide linings then!

Offline wynnen

  • Active
  • *
  • Join Date: Jan 2022
  • Posts: 3
  • Karma: 0
Re: Difference between A10 and A65 8" single sided brakes?
« Reply #7 on: 31.01. 2022 11:21 »
Those brakes can be excellent so worth getting sorted.

Hi, yes I've had no problem with the 8" brake on other bikes, so its down to the set up.  Plan is:

1. Going to get a new decent cable as this one feels too spongy. 
2. The shoes only seem to be wearing on the middle section and not at the trailing and leading edges.  So am going to try the adhesive emery on the shoes to true to drum first,
3. and then (after I've fitted some better linings) stick the emery to the drum to bed the shoes in.

Any other tips?

Online Rex

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Apr 2017
  • Posts: 1680
  • Karma: 8
Re: Difference between A10 and A65 8" single sided brakes?
« Reply #8 on: 01.02. 2022 10:57 »
Stick emery on the shoes to true the drum?
That could take a lot of time and a lot of emery... ;)

Offline scotty

  • Resident Legend
  • *****
  • Join Date: Aug 2008
  • Posts: 562
  • Karma: 8
Re: Difference between A10 and A65 8" single sided brakes?
« Reply #9 on: 01.02. 2022 18:04 »
The A65 front hub had a longer brake arm lever than the one fitted to the A10.

Some say this was an improvement on the brake response.

Might be worth checking to see what you have

S

Scotty

Current liabilities:
'56 A10 Dark Flash
‘74 Berlin Bomber R75-6

Online JulianS

  • 1962 A10
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Mar 2017
  • Posts: 1437
  • Karma: 29
Re: Difference between A10 and A65 8" single sided brakes?
« Reply #10 on: 01.02. 2022 18:24 »
Same front brake lever on the 8 inch half width brakes fitted 1950 - 1968. Part 65 5907 according to my parts books.

Online KiwiGF

  • Last had an A10 in 1976, in 2011 it was time for my 2nd one. It was the project from HELL (but I learned a lot....)
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2011
  • Posts: 1972
  • Karma: 17
Re: Difference between A10 and A65 8" single sided brakes?
« Reply #11 on: 01.02. 2022 18:43 »
Those brakes can be excellent so worth getting sorted.

Hi, yes I've had no problem with the 8" brake on other bikes, so its down to the set up.  Plan is:

1. Going to get a new decent cable as this one feels too spongy. 
2. The shoes only seem to be wearing on the middle section and not at the trailing and leading edges.  So am going to try the adhesive emery on the shoes to true to drum first,
3. and then (after I've fitted some better linings) stick the emery to the drum to bed the shoes in.

Any other tips?

Make sure the leading shoe contacts first, a “quick fix” to achieve this is to weld a 1 to 2 mm thick “pad” onto the leading shoe where it contacts the cam and grind it flat. This can transform many duff brakes. Be careful not damage aluminium type shoes doing this.

A design fault of many SLS brakes (like the A10) is the lever being “upside down” so the trailing shoe moves more than the leading shoe (this takes some thought to figure out why, its to do with the distance from the contact point on the cam versus distance from pivot point) so even a well set up brake can degrade over time.

Given the leading shoe gives (say) 80% of the braking effort, if the trailing shoe contacts first, the leading shoe will be prevented from being pushed as hard onto the drum, and the result is usually a poor brake.

Some owners reverse the levers as a permanent  mod. It’s a common racing trick.

You can also use emery cloth to line the drum and sand the shoes to fit, whilst a 1mm spacer is temporarily  under the trailing cam, so after the spacer is removed the leading shoe contacts first, but I personally have not had as much success with that method as with welding the shoes (and it reduces shoe life!).

New Zealand

1956 A10 Golden Flash  (1st finished project)
1949 B31 rigid “400cc”  (2nd finished project)
1968 B44 Victor Special (3rd finished project)
2001 GL1800 Goldwing, well, the wife likes it
2009 KTM 990 Adventure, cos it’s 100% nuts

Offline Swarfcut

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Oct 2018
  • Posts: 2355
  • Karma: 57
Re: Difference between A10 and A65 8" single sided brakes?
« Reply #12 on: 02.02. 2022 09:50 »
 Back in previous posts concerning lever position, trailing shoes etc there was much debate as to the merits of various tips and tricks to ensure the leading shoe contacts the drum first, well before the trailing shoe touches the drum to prevent further brake cam movement.

 Before adding a permanent addition to the leading shoe I'd suggest a close fitting sheet steel pad between the cam and leading shoe to get an idea of thickness required and whether the mod will work in this case. That's what we used to do to get a bit more life from a set of worn bonded shoes.

 Swarfy.

Offline BSA_54A10

  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 2544
  • Karma: 37
    • BSA National
Re: Difference between A10 and A65 8" single sided brakes?
« Reply #13 on: 03.02. 2022 08:01 »
Goes like this
The sports versions get uprated brakes because Musky types want to ride very fast  *whistle* *whistle*

Good one Trevor.
 I raced the 57 A7SS with STANDARD Ariel brakes for 9 years and still got them in 20 years later. *lol*
Cheers

yea,
I like the clows bemoaning comical brakes
You would remember George Heggie
150 mph on his racing T150's & A75's
Comical front ends out braking lots of disc braked bikes at Oran Park & Amaroo
And they arn't good enough for commuting on a T bolt .
Bike Beesa
Trevor

Online KiwiGF

  • Last had an A10 in 1976, in 2011 it was time for my 2nd one. It was the project from HELL (but I learned a lot....)
  • Wise & Enlightened
  • *
  • Join Date: Feb 2011
  • Posts: 1972
  • Karma: 17
Re: Difference between A10 and A65 8" single sided brakes?
« Reply #14 on: 03.02. 2022 09:03 »
Back in previous posts concerning lever position, trailing shoes etc there was much debate as to the merits of various tips and tricks to ensure the leading shoe contacts the drum first, well before the trailing shoe touches the drum to prevent further brake cam movement.

 Before adding a permanent addition to the leading shoe I'd suggest a close fitting sheet steel pad between the cam and leading shoe to get an idea of thickness required and whether the mod will work in this case. That's what we used to do to get a bit more life from a set of worn bonded shoes.

 Swarfy.

I totally get your suggestion swarfy and of course it would suit someone who cannot weld (I have used the spacer method which works fine depending on the shoe shape) I actually only put a line of weld on the shoe, creating a 8mm ish wide raised section on only part of the width of the cam bearing surface, and it can then be ground back to flat if/when the shoes are relined. Doing this also keeps the heat input down.
New Zealand

1956 A10 Golden Flash  (1st finished project)
1949 B31 rigid “400cc”  (2nd finished project)
1968 B44 Victor Special (3rd finished project)
2001 GL1800 Goldwing, well, the wife likes it
2009 KTM 990 Adventure, cos it’s 100% nuts