Thanks John and Bill , thats what i was hoping would be the case . Has with these things of ours ,nothing is stright forward, having looked at the layshafts I now need some more help, so here goes, the layshafts have had the speedo scroll removed , looks like it was pinned in place has there is a hole right through has i've got knackered shafts with the scroll in situ and the pin looks to be preened over ,I tried to drill it but no luck so any help ideas greatfully received, regards BobH