petition against ethanol

[rocket man]

lets all put our names on this site those against ethanol i will start


i david wareing  here bye say i am  against ethanol because of the damage it does to my classic bike

[lawnmowerman]

There used to be a facility on the no 10 website to petition the government but since this shower have taken over it has not been available. Could be a case of them not wanting to hear bad news!

Jim

[A10Boy]

Maybe because the previous lot spent all the money.  

[lawnmowerman]

See this link http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/new - by the time they get it working again our tanks and carbs will probably have completely dissolved.

Jim

[bsa-bill]

Calm down dears

I'm wondering wether it's Ethanol or hysteria thats the problem here.
I've no doubt there is a problem as I respect the views of members here but still a lot of hearsay going about.
I have two tanks both lined one with Por 15 which is advertised as safe to use with ethanol and the other tank is lined with pink stuff ( wasn't me that did it) no idea what it is.
No problems to report with either tank.
I do have cracked fuel lines on the Flash, nothing to do with Etanol just crap tubing.

I'm no chemist either Jim but don't know if Ethanol can be made from inorganic material or not, Rubber used to come from trees but now god knows what it's made from.

On a slight tangent how do the boys using Methanol (speed way) keep it in the fuel lines or is it an entirely different thing ( I said I'm no chemist)

and on yet another tangent, an expert ???? on radio yesterday stated that there is enough oil for another twenty years after that what?, might have to be Ethanol and anything else that will go bang, so maybe we need to be directing our efforts more towards how to use it than how to abuse it

[muskrat]

G'day Bill,
             I have been led to believe that Por15 is the ducks guts. no problems with ethanol.
 The only down side I had with methanol was having to clean out the carb after use as if it sat in there it would turn to jelly after a few weeks. It dissolves tank liner (not Por15) very quickly. I made an alloy oil tank and thought I'd line it just in case. The methanol blow by the rings mixed with the oil and ate the sealer, blocked the feed line and starved the motor of oil!!! Lucky I had a guage fitted.
Cheers

[bikerbob]

Hi there
I am afraid it is too late to have a petition to stop Ethanol  it is a european directive so this government has to go along wth it. My main concern has always been about safety, until December 2010 I had not even heard of the word Ethanol I had heard about Bio-fuels and i thought that was something that was being added into diesel to make it more enviromental. When you do a bit of research on the web and in magazines you will find that Ethanol is certainly not the green fuel it is being touted as. It is a known fact that some tank liners do dissolve and also some fibreglass resins also, this is fact not hearsay. The resultant problems can have disastrous consequences as has already happened carb throttle slides siezing and in at least one case inlet valves seizing which caused the push rods to bend out of shape a Norton Commando fibreglass tank leaked like collander all proven to be caused by Ethanol in petrol in this country. As I said earlier my concern has always been mainly for safety what I would like is for a delay in the introduction of anymore fuel stations using Ethanol until more research has been done into it's negative effects and also those fuel stations that are using Ethanol to label their pumps with the level of Ethanol. I would also like to see a major publicity campaign to make everyone aware of the very real dangers of Ethanol and some real debate about it,s so called green credentials. Why should we as responsible bikers have to worry about wether our bikes are safe to ride and also have to pay the cost of any changes to our bikes to make them  Ethanol friendly.
 Ethanol also has other bad things going for it did you know that it is corrosive to a whole list of materials depending on wether it is used in petrol or diesel it is also hygroscopic it absorbs moisture from the atmosphere.
The largest producer of Ethanol is Brazil there they have turned over vast areas of land to growing the crops such as sweetcorn and sugar cane now sugarcane has to be burnt off before it can be harvested this is causing pollution problems in Sau Paulo. Finally did you also know that Ducati motorcycles are being sued in America because their fibreglass tanks on new bikes are dissolving and this only takes about 2000miles they are replacing them with the same tanks under their warranty system how many motorboats are there out their with fibreglass tanks quite a large number I suspect this Ethanol has a lot to answer for.

[1660bob]

If you have an hour or so you might like to frighten yourself with this-http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/environment/research/assessingfuelsystemcompatability/


If the link does not work try the forum of the Vincent owners club website and accaess this link thro` the topic headed "Qinetic"
I have no doubt provision will be made for classic vehicles to be supplied with low/non ethanol fuel, but for how much a litre? And of course those wacky guys from The Ministry will no doubt have all classic vehicle owners purchase a yearly permit to buy non ethanol fuel for , er, ......... more than your saving on free road tax no doubt......Bob.

[bsa-bill]

Oop 1660bob beat me to a reply

This is to BikerBob

Hi Bob
after reading your post I think maybe I should apologize for using the word "hearsay" ,bad choice, not what I meant really, I meant to compare what you would term real life examples against researched tested results in labs, that's about as near as I can get I think to what I mean.
Yes ethanol is not very green - neither is petrol and way back in time there would be  a switch from less volatile fuel (paraffin and such ?) to petrol, bound to have been problems then also.
water-craft with fibre glass tanks, I have no idea how many use petrol but bio-fuel from oilseed rape (not ethanol) was supposed to be the answer for them as unlike diesel it is water dispersible, it's a while since I was privy to any info on it so can't argue it's case.

I think it is a good thing to bring this to ears that can act but we need to be alive to the possible outcome, could we for instance set in motion moves to take classic vehicles off the road, there are some politically attractive consideration to this - (boost to car sales, pollution reduction,,,,,,)
I don't think a ban or a reduction on ethanol is going to happen , more to be gained by trying to get compensation of some kind to replace tanks, lines whatever affected by ethanol                

[A10Boy]

For the benefit of our friends outside the area now known as the "EU" which use to be a collection of countries in and around the continent of Europe, but is now some pseudo socialist nanny / police state lead by unelected and unknown bureaucrats sitting in a frikkin palace in Belgium.

Our UK government which used to discuss and debate how to run our country and pass laws that were mostly tailored around the needs and requirements of the people of our country don't actually have the powers to make laws here anymore. We find ourselves having to let in all sorts of rubbish from around the world and don't  even have the power to deport a terrorist if he decides to blow up Buckingham Palace because he might be persecuted in his "county of origin".

That being the case, which it is, a petition is a waste of time because there's no way we the public [SUBJECTS not citizens] will ever bring about any change on the EU fuel directive regarding ethanol because Tony Fukwit Blair gave away our democratic rights as part of his quest to be the first EU president and he even failed at that.  

OK rant over. BTW Bob Great Post thanks.

[groily]

Great posts and Great Rant.
How is the fukwit Peace Envoy I wonder? Invisible, in his Counting House I should think.
First time anyone has correctly referred to us as SUBJECTS since dunno when. It's a word I use often when asked what is my 'citizenship'. After I've said 'none' and enjoyed watching eyebrows levitate, comes the explanation.
Head against brick wall is about right.

[bsa-bill]

Oh Oh - hold on just a minute lads.
We are getting just a bit political don't you think, I'm not saying you are right or that you are wrong what I do say is that I have seen a lot of lists fall apart due to the expression of political views which the mailer may well think everyone shares, not so - we are a diverse bunch with one common bond (our bikes) beyond that we may have many strongly held views that we should avoid taking as widely held by others.

And just in case your a weeny bit curios, I can't for the life of me think of any political or religious person or entity I would trust or believe any further than I could throw my Flash
on reflection could I add most journalists to that.

[BSA_54A10]

1) this is the technical section so it is the wrong place for this type of post
2) motorcycles account for less than 0.5% of the worlds fuel usage so if every motorcyclist in the nation signed the petition then it would still not come to a majority in any 1 seat in any electorial district in any country. So it is pointless.
3) Ethanol is not the boogie man that it is made out to be. We used to run motorcycles on straight ethanol and ethanol based blends for over 50 years on the race tracks in OZ. Apart from problems resulting from the soluability of some plastics in ethanol and those resulting from the absorbtion of water it is not going to destroy your bike. Brazil ( & SA I think ) have been running 25% to 50% blends for years.
Non soluable items like floats & filters are available and if you run the carbs dry when you put your toys away for more than 2 weeks then it wont be a problem other than having to drain the petrol tank once or twice a year depending upon how much you ride & your local weather conditions.
As noted earlier it is all of the other stuff that is disposed of by shoving it in "fuel" that is the problem. Solvent benzene, tolluene, azine, tetramine, etc, etc,etc,.
As different byproducts of oil distillation are scheduled or banned, a lot of them get shoved into "fuel" where in a modern computer controlled combustion process they will be incinerated into less harmful ( ?) compounds.
Problem is that a lot of them can not be burned in or by our engines.
3) OTOH if it makes you feel good then go for it

[lawnmowerman]

Wise words Trevor. I suppose we need to wake up to reality - petrol as we know it will not be available in the not too distant future and as Bill says, we will need to adapt if we want to carry on using our classic cars and bikes or face having our vehicles banned from road use if they are deemed to be unsafe by the "elf and safety" brigade.
We are all engineers at heart and the word "engineer" is derived from the word "inginuity" so I am sure that between us we will come up with a solution.

Jim