Author Topic: 86 years ago  (Read 391 times)

Offline Greybeard

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86 years ago
« on: 22.01. 2022 09:23 »
'86 years ago today (22 January 1936) Triumph cars and motorcycles became separate entities on this day in 1936 as the motorcycle company was sold to J.Y. "Jack" Sangster for £5000, who owned the rival Ariel motorcycle company.'
Greybeard (Neil)
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Warwickshire UK


A Distinguished Gentleman Riding his 1955 Plunger Golden Flash

Offline bikerbob

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Re: 86 years ago
« Reply #1 on: 22.01. 2022 10:19 »
That is a nice bike, strange that both Triumph and Ariel would eventaully be owned by BSA along with a whole range of other companies. One of which comes to mind in a town not far from where I live now, some 6 miles away Birtley, BSA owned a factory Caterpillar Earth Moving Equipment where they made earth moving equipment under licence from the parent company in America. My own father worked there some years and travelled there on a BSA bike with a Canterbury side car he never knew that he was acually working for BSA he always thought he was working for Caterpillar. The factory is still there today still making earth moving equipment but is now owned by Komatsu a japanese company. Interesting how posts such as these stir your memories from long ago.
56 A7 s/a
63 A65

Offline BSA_54A10

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Re: 86 years ago
« Reply #2 on: 23.01. 2022 05:40 »
Not strange at all
Both Ariel & Triumph were bankrupt at the time so he bought both for peanuts.
He was primarily a corperate raider who bought failing companies when the share price dropped lower than the capital value of the assets.
In both cases he got Turner to restyle the range & Heale to make Turners bad engineering work .
Then when the company was apparently profitable sell out before any one noticed there was no money left in the till .

What we fail to understand is back them companies were really only a way for the British aristocary to avoid death duties ( BSA being the exception ) so the owners saw them as their toys .
Also all of the owners were members of the same "club" so if one of them was doing it tough the others would step in and bail him out as was the case with Lanchester & Daimler .
Can't have the "right people " left destitute can we chaps.
Responsible spending of share holders money was an unknown concept back then .
Bike Beesa
Trevor

Online groily

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Re: 86 years ago
« Reply #3 on: 23.01. 2022 09:56 »
. . . . so the owners saw them as their toys .
Responsible spending of share holders money was an unknown concept back then .

The 'owners' of any company ARE the 'shareholders' though. Be they aristocrats or common little plebeians like us.
Back then shares weren't that widely held by Joe Public, even if the companies were public ones.
More a question of the owners / shareholders not wanting to invest ANY of their money to improve their core offering (even if they actually had any). Which led to countless death spirals right through to the end of the industry, via corporate raiders and consolidators trying to make a buck along the way and duly failing in their turn, not to mention prime greed merchants like Lady Dockett and the gold-plated Daimler. Paid for on the proceeds of selling Bantams  . . . er  . . . I don't think! All very sad, but different times and very indifferent thinking.
The Past was indeed another country.
Bill

Online Rex

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Re: 86 years ago
« Reply #4 on: 23.01. 2022 21:12 »

Responsible spending of share holders money was an unknown concept back then .

As there were so many successful companies back then clearly "responsible spending" was very much a known concept.
As for the rest of it Trevor, with all due respect you do talk some...

Offline BSA_54A10

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Re: 86 years ago
« Reply #5 on: 24.01. 2022 13:29 »

Responsible spending of share holders money was an unknown concept back then .

As there were so many successful companies back then clearly "responsible spending" was very much a known concept.
As for the rest of it Trevor, with all due respect you do talk some...

Most of the so called companie were a single owner with a financial backer .
When a business is new & in the growth stage, people invest in it to make a capital gain.
As the business matures then the capital gains get realized and the original backers are replaced with the rent seekers looking for dividends higher than they can make on the money market.
BSA prospered while the original gunsmiths were the board members
As they resigned they got replaced with the money men who knew nothing about any of the things BSA did apart from make money .
Had ther not been a WW I & WWII BSA would have vanished  long before they did .
In theory the entire shareholders own the business & the directors are there to oversee the running of the company on behalf of the shareholdes in general.
However if you look into the histories boards acted as if the company was their own private business .
BSA paid substantially more for Sunbeam, Ariel , Triumph , New Hudson , Daimler , Lanchester and Aeroco than any of them were worth.
The board members when these sales happened all had direct links to the owhers of the companies that BSA was buying.
Old school tie economics
Now days it would be called a conflict of interest but back then it was SOP
Bike Beesa
Trevor