Author Topic: Getting Tooled Up!  (Read 698 times)

Offline Biker Chris

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Getting Tooled Up!
« on: 28.06. 2021 20:57 »
A question for the forum...

... I've been playing with metric bikes for a while and I've been making do with a load of hand-me-down AF tools and the AF sockets in my metric set - less than ideal I know.

But, it's time to start thinking about tools for winter work, so I can buy some each month on payday

Here it is, what are the common size consumables (washers etc.) and spanners, taps and dyes, allen keys etc. I'll need to be able to  comfortably work on an A7?

I ask as the parts catalogue is less than helpful on bolt/nut/washer sizes and I'd rather not buy a new tool every time a different size bolt/nut is encountered.

All advice gratefully received!
'49 A7 Star Twin
'68 Triumph Trophy TR6R

Various project bikes or friends bikes that come and go!

Offline Greybeard

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Re: Getting Tooled Up!
« Reply #1 on: 28.06. 2021 23:33 »
The original thread types are mostly Whitworth and British Standard Cycle thread. If you don't want to round off heads you will need spanners in the Whit/BSF sizes. AF is not usually a good fit.
I'm in bed writing this. I can quote suitable sizes for you tomorrow if no-one beats me to it.
Greybeard (Neil)
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Online groily

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Re: Getting Tooled Up!
« Reply #2 on: 29.06. 2021 07:55 »
Maybe get a set of combination ring/open-enders going from 3/16ths WW (1/4BSF) to 7/16WW (1/2BSF) for starters, and perhaps a small set of 3/8" drive sockets covering the same sizes. King Dick and others do neat sockets of excellent quality, not ridiculously expensive. IMHO far more useful than 1/2" drive, 90% of the time.
These would cover most of the mechanical bits. Dimensions of hexes and shanks are the same for BSF and BSC, the shanks are different for BSW but the heads are the same pattern.

For rear axle nuts if bigger than 1/2BSF, and also for the oil tank big filter nut (which is, and is a regular thing to visit!), best get those sizes individually unless you're OK with using adjustables (not!) - or a metric / AF one's a close fit. Steering head adjustment ditto - not actually sure what the dimensions are on them, just that they can be hard to get onto properly sometimes.
For fiddling with the points and 'leccy bits you'll need BA spanners - with the slenderest possible jaws as there's norralot of space. A set of 'Terry' spanners is a cracking little investment if you can find one (there are plenty on e-bay as a rule).

Threads are as GB says. 1/4" to 3/8" would cover most needs if going for taps and dies. Tracy Tools has decent choices at decent prices (and plenty of people sell bolts and setscrews to make life easier on the die front).

Allen keys - a few imperial ones should do it - can't think there are many to deal with unless you've got 'em on the timing cover and the primary chaincase, or have SRM tappet adjusters fitted.

If thinking about 'special' tools, depending what clutch you have, might be worth grinding a notch in an old wood chisel or big scrooge to make doing up / undoing the spring cups easier.
A weapon to get onto the front brake backplate retainer nut will be useful, and the lack of is a complete PITA when you need something.
Another useful thing might be a 'pushrod comb' - unless you have very dainty digits. Can make refitting the rocker box quite a bit easier.
And if you have to take the primary side apart, you'll be into getting the clutch centre off (puller can be needed) and the ever-so-tight shock-absorber nut off the crank. But those are probably pleasures in store, along with taking off the pressure relief valve and one or two other quite big fasteners round the place!

The pain in the pocket shouldn't be too bad for most of this, but threading tackle can cost, as we know, if you want lots of it in decent HSS quality.

Bill

Online Rex

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Re: Getting Tooled Up!
« Reply #3 on: 29.06. 2021 08:46 »
Get yourself off to a half-decent autojumble as there's usually stalls flogging trays of used and chunky Imperial-sized spanners etc. They were 50p an item at the last Netley jumble I went to, so handy for making up a tool roll for each bike's tool box. Just check the jaws haven't been sprung or ground out for a particular job at some time in the past.
Leave your SAE ("AF")  and metric spanners in their boxes, as they don't fit BSA fasteners.

Offline Azubi

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Re: Getting Tooled Up!
« Reply #4 on: 29.06. 2021 09:15 »
I am not a mechanic and still have to learn a lot. But it would be horrible for me to use metric or AF tools. And it would be even worse to have only tool kit tools.

I started with a set of new combination spanners - which I don't use in the meantime. I started to buy vintage spanners (ebay UK - maybe not the cheapest source) and now have a good range of WW-tools. I would recommend used Gordon, Garrington(s) or a German top-brand (Stahlwille, Gedore) for affordable quality.

At the moment I use the following tools:
Stahlwille open ended spanners
Garringtons ring spanners
Matador short ring spanners
Gordon restriction spanners
3/8 sockets - Koken (new)


Offline BSARGS650

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Re: Getting Tooled Up!
« Reply #5 on: 29.06. 2021 10:59 »
Mmmm...Praise to Gordon ring spanners - I have sets from the middle/late 60's, seen a lot of work from C10L, A7&, A10's B31's, SR, RGS..... and thr rest over the years, they are are like new now - mind I have looked after them well.  Same goes for a Bedford socket set from the same era.  All served the purpose and me without fault.....All the best

Offline Biker Chris

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Re: Getting Tooled Up!
« Reply #6 on: 29.06. 2021 11:36 »
Thank you all for your advice, sounds like it might be auto jumble time... Once they properly start up again.

Might need to research some tap & dye sets too!

And don't worry, I am doing my best to avoid using 'best fit' metric or AF stuff!
'49 A7 Star Twin
'68 Triumph Trophy TR6R

Various project bikes or friends bikes that come and go!

Online Rex

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Re: Getting Tooled Up!
« Reply #7 on: 29.06. 2021 12:28 »
Good! There's too many monkeys around who'll tell you that this "nearly fits that" etc.
Be wary of second hand tap and die sets though as they do blunt over time.

Online groily

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Re: Getting Tooled Up!
« Reply #8 on: 29.06. 2021 14:49 »
Everyone singing off the hymn sheet, as you'd expect in this discerning corner of cyber-space.

Ref 2nd-hand, yes indeed - the only thing I'd say is go for slimline profiles where you can, especially on open-enders. Chunky looks 'period' maybe - but can be hard to get onto some fasteners. Gordon tools are superb (I have some ring spanners an uncle gave me for my 12th birthday, some 54 years back, and they are genuinely as good as new - far better condition than their owner!). Gedore, Elora, etc etc - there are good brands out there. Some old box spanners aren't so bad either within their limits - and can be picked up for just pennies.

Maybe avoid unmarked shiny things that look chrome plated - they may well be, usually come from far afield and are not great - but there again, the bigger the size, the less likely you'll be able to wreck it in normal use! I have a few cheap huge shiny metric combination jobs that offend the eyes a bit, but which I certainly haven't managed to wear out or bust.

I agree with Rex 100% about 2nd hand taps and dies - probably best not, to be honest, unless obviously an unwanted present to someone.

No-one's said anything about hex- vs bi-hex sockets - and not sure there's much choice in our sizes even. But there be those who swear by 6, and 'tis true they can sometimes save the day.

The only other thing I can think of is w/ref to ratchet drive wrenches. The more teeth or clicks per 360° the better in the confined spaces we play in. But fine toothed tools usually only come with the better quality brands.
Bill

Offline Greybeard

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Re: Getting Tooled Up!
« Reply #9 on: 29.06. 2021 15:47 »
A good quality adjustable spanner can often be used for larger nuts. Useful in the bike toolkit.

Our local refuse tip has a shop in the middle where stuff that should not be binned is sold. The money raised goes to various charities. I always go looking for old tools and have got some real bargains.

Other sources are Facebook market place groups and Freecycle.
Greybeard (Neil)
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Warwickshire UK


A Distinguished Gentleman Riding his 1955 Plunger Golden Flash

Offline Biker Chris

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Re: Getting Tooled Up!
« Reply #10 on: 30.06. 2021 05:58 »
So would it be best to get a baf & bsw tap and dye set or a cycle thread one?

I was on dragonfly spares and they seem to indicate cycle thread... https://draganfly.co.uk/shop/73833/set-cei-tapsdies-in-box-basic-set-see-tool-41-for-posh-set/#6625-99set-cei-taps-dies-in-box-basic-set-see-tool-41-for-posh-set/category_pathway-2

Any thoughts on taps and due sets? I think we've covered most of the other bits I was thinking of
'49 A7 Star Twin
'68 Triumph Trophy TR6R

Various project bikes or friends bikes that come and go!

Offline Peter in Aus

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Re: Getting Tooled Up!
« Reply #11 on: 30.06. 2021 06:42 »

Any thoughts on taps and due sets? I think we've covered most of the other bits I was thinking of

Try this for taps & dies http://www.tracytools.com

Busselton West Australia
49 A7 longstroke
58 A10  SA

Offline orabanda

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Re: Getting Tooled Up!
« Reply #12 on: 30.06. 2021 06:49 »
Great recommendation Peter!
Their service (responding) is "shit hot"; very quick supply to Western Australia at least.

They also do a lot of specials, such as 9/16" x 20 TPI LH (for the oil pump drive on the timing end of the crankshaft) in Die nut, die and tap.

Also 7/8" x 20 TPI tap for the oil relief valve cavity.

Ask and Ye usually get a good result.

Richard

Online Rex

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Re: Getting Tooled Up!
« Reply #13 on: 30.06. 2021 08:27 »
So would it be best to get a bad & bsw tap and dye set or a cycle thread one?

If you're going to buy one set at a time I'd start with a BSCy set, although you'll likely mainly use 1/4, 5/16 and 3/8 sizes. Not a lot of Whit threads, other than stud threads, to need chasing.

Offline Swarfcut

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Re: Getting Tooled Up!
« Reply #14 on: 30.06. 2021 08:44 »
 Most of the fastenings are Cycle Thread. I went to Tracy Tools, they're on an Industrial Estate between Torquay and Newton Abbot. Rather than a big spend I got taps and dies that you actually use, rather than expensive sets for professional use, most of which you will never even unwrap.

 Carbon steel are OK for cleaning up existing threads but the price difference for their HSS offerings was marginal, so I went for those. 1/4", 5/16",3/8" & 7/16"  CEI will cover the majority of the fastenings. Major threads into alloy are Whitworth. These taps can be found in Grandad's old Toolbox or the usual second hand sources. An exception is the gearbox inspection plate on the outer cover. These appear to be cycle.

 Whitworth threads also used on old fashioned coach bolts, and while not high tensile, these are good material for making low stressed studs into alloy, such as custom sump plate and rocker box studs. Also good for dynamo strap retaining pins. Cylinder head bolts are BSF. Always use caution, there is always the inevitable exception with unknown and neglected threads.

 The Forum  Literature Section has a useful cross reference for fasteners, listing part numbers for fasteners against thread spec. Look for "Muskys Nut and Bolt  Part Chart"

 Swarfy