Author Topic: Frame/engine number match...  (Read 3854 times)

Offline duTch

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Re: Frame/engine number match...
« Reply #15 on: 27.09. 2017 23:39 »

Quote
From Glass's Motor Cycle check book showing last A10 plunger frame and engine number in July 1957.


 Ok, so I'm a year ahead of myself which makes mine probably a '56 model Frame (~circa mid-Aplril '56 ?) ; depending how I interpret the numbers,like if I start from August @ ~ 141.5 units/month.
   ^^ That isn't important, but just a matter of interest...

 My main query was the discontinuation of the A7 PLUNGER models after '54, but still not important, just curious
Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Online JulianS

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Re: Frame/engine number match...
« Reply #16 on: 28.09. 2017 09:12 »
Glass's check book showing the A7. No plungers shown after 1954.

Offline KiwiGF

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Re: Frame/engine number match...
« Reply #17 on: 28.09. 2017 09:57 »
Wouldnt the bsa club uk site be the definitive source?

That says A7 plungers finished In 54, A10 plungers finished in 57, if I'm reading it right.....but 1957 a10s plunger still had ba7s numbered frames.

http://www.bsaownersclub.co.uk/yearlist1951.html
New Zealand

1956 A10 Golden Flash  (1st finished project)
1949 B31 rigid “400cc”  (2nd finished project)
1968 B44 Victor Special (3rd finished project)
2001 GL1800 Goldwing, well, the wife likes it
2009 KTM 990 Adventure, cos it’s 100% nuts

Online JulianS

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Re: Frame/engine number match...
« Reply #18 on: 28.09. 2017 10:18 »
The factory despatch books will detail what was despatched to where and when.

The information in Glass's check books came from the manufacturers.

Sometimes you will see information in one source which is missing from another - for example in Glass's they list the 1954 low production swinging arm A7 Star Twin with CA7S engine prefix - which does not appear in the BSAOC year listing - and on the other hand Glass's does not show the very early Gold Star swinging arm frame from 1953 with BB32A prefix and the BSAOC list does.

Offline duTch

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Re: Frame/engine number match...
« Reply #19 on: 28.09. 2017 10:51 »

 Thanks Julian, fairly much demonstrates what is stated in the other link https://www.britbike.com/bsapitstop/dating/1951-60.html

 Kiwi, yeah-but..what you say is valid and I agree that the A7 Frames with A7 engines finished in/after '54, but the A10 powered rigs lived on, keeping in mind they were (by my understanding) more suited to the work-hack/ sidecar units...and the info in your link seems to be the same info as the one I pilfered which has been re-hashed into years

 Also keep in mind that ALL the swing frames (A7 & A10) were '*A7 *****' until the GA10 RGS frames..... *pull hair out*

 I'm not trying to be some kinda know-all, 'cos I really know F-all, that's why I asked, and also to help get the info out for folk who need to know

Started building in about 1977/8 a on average '52 A10 -built from bits 'n pieces never resto intended -maybe 'personalised'
Have a '74 850T Moto Guzzi since '92-best thing I ever bought doesn't need a kickstart 'cos it bump starts sooooooooo(mostly) easy
Australia

Offline bikerbob

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Re: Frame/engine number match...
« Reply #20 on: 28.09. 2017 12:46 »
These kind of post remind me of my very first restoration project  which was over 20 years ago. I bought a BSA basket case which I assumed was A10 I recieved with it a dating certificate issued by the Vintage Motorcycle Club which stated that the engine and frame numbers were from 1957. The engine although in bits was 1957 as I thought the frame was but when I started the restoration I found that certain parts were from different years ie it had the ariel hubs but the front forks were earlier. On completion of the restoration I got an age related plate and it is registered as a 1957 A10 Gold Flash. Some time later I applied through the BSA owners club when I became a member for a dating certificate, I then learned that the engine was 1957 but the frame left the factory in 1956 and had a 500cc Shooting Star engine fitted. Now the BSA owners club will only recognise a model by it's frame regardless of what engine is fitted I relayed all this info to the person I sold it too but he was not concerned he just liked the  bike as it was. I seen him last year and he has had the bike about 4 years now and is well pleased with it but has now fitted an electric start to it of his own design, works great. I learnt a lot from that first restoration particularly when buying a basket case.
56 A7 s/a
63 A65

Offline KiwiGF

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Re: Frame/engine number match...
« Reply #21 on: 28.09. 2017 21:36 »
Hi Bikerbob, it could still be that your bike left bsa in 56 but was a 57  *dunno* I say this as there are a few grey areas, my bike being one of them.

This has just come up for me as I am going through the re registering for a b31, on the form I had to put year of manufacture, which would technically be 48 according to the Vmcc uk, but it is a 49 model according to the published bsa numbering system, this being cos bsa introduced new models some time around August the "year before". So I decided to register as a 49.

The practice of making new models prior to the calendar year is still common practice for many car and bike makers today. Maybe so the new models are in the showrooms in plenty of time for the calendar year to start.

I've also read bsa used a July summer holiday factory shut down to change over production lines to new models, but also conversely sometimes used up previous years parts on the new models. My A10 frame is an oddball in that respect having still got an extra lug for a 55 style rear rod brake  *eek* that later 56 bikes did not have

My A10 (engine and frame) left bsa in dec 1955 according to the bsa despatch records, but is a 56 model so with Ariel hubs.

Using year of registration confuses things even further, if a bike sat in a showroom for a year it could very well become a 57 that was made in 55!



These kind of post remind me of my very first restoration project  which was over 20 years ago. I bought a BSA basket case which I assumed was A10 I recieved with it a dating certificate issued by the Vintage Motorcycle Club which stated that the engine and frame numbers were from 1957. The engine although in bits was 1957 as I thought the frame was but when I started the restoration I found that certain parts were from different years ie it had the ariel hubs but the front forks were earlier. On completion of the restoration I got an age related plate and it is registered as a 1957 A10 Gold Flash. Some time later I applied through the BSA owners club when I became a member for a dating certificate, I then learned that the engine was 1957 but the frame left the factory in 1956 and had a 500cc Shooting Star engine fitted. Now the BSA owners club will only recognise a model by it's frame regardless of what engine is fitted I relayed all this info to the person I sold it too but he was not concerned he just liked the  bike as it was. I seen him last year and he has had the bike about 4 years now and is well pleased with it but has now fitted an electric start to it of his own design, works great. I learnt a lot from that first restoration particularly when buying a basket case.
New Zealand

1956 A10 Golden Flash  (1st finished project)
1949 B31 rigid “400cc”  (2nd finished project)
1968 B44 Victor Special (3rd finished project)
2001 GL1800 Goldwing, well, the wife likes it
2009 KTM 990 Adventure, cos it’s 100% nuts

Offline bikerbob

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Re: Frame/engine number match...
« Reply #22 on: 29.09. 2017 10:23 »
The frame was dispatched 6th May 1956 to a local dealer at the time Cowies of Sunderland. This would make it 1956 as the 1957 models would not start until August 1956. One of the 2 bikes which I now own is a 1963 A65 was dispatched in October 1962 to a dealer in Exeter but was not first registered until June 1963 it is however a 1963 model  as it has the rod operated rear brake whereas the 1962 model has the cable operated rear brake. My other bike is a 1956 A7 for which I have quite a large history file it has had 11 previous owners I have the names and addresses of all previous owners also MOT's which prove the mileage  a photograph rather blurred taken  in 1962  of the then owner on a camping trip in Wales and a later photo I think of the then owner sometime in the 1980's. Interestingly it still has it's original registration but in the late 1980's the then owner changed the registration number for some reason but this lasted for only a year then it was changed back to it's original registration number. I would like to know why but am loathe to try to contact the owner at  that time because it is so long ago he may not live at that adress or may have passed away, maybe it was a personalised number who knows.
56 A7 s/a
63 A65

Online JulianS

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Re: Frame/engine number match...
« Reply #23 on: 29.09. 2017 11:13 »
The DVLA may know about the number change and change back for your A7. You can apply to them using their form V888. They will charge you a small fee.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/v888-request-by-an-individual-for-information-about-a-vehicle

Offline bikerbob

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Re: Frame/engine number match...
« Reply #24 on: 29.09. 2017 15:05 »
Thanks for that info Julian I will look into that.
56 A7 s/a
63 A65