The BSA A7-A10 Forum
Bikes, Pictures, Stories & more => Introductions, Stories, Meetings & Pictures => Topic started by: Triton Thrasher on 02.02. 2024 14:17
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(https://i.postimg.cc/J0DDczy9/IMG-0079.jpg)
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Japanese - we'll make it so its doesn't break.
Lucas - we'll sell loads of exchange units... *razz*
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Nothing wrong with Lucas stuff of the time. I have Lucas mags and dynamo's from the 1930's still working just fine.
People using them 60+ years after their design life, or not maintaining them or even fannying around with them is the problem.
As for the japanese, we'll make it so it doesn't break for a given period of time, then it's non-repairable as there's no spares.
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I will agree that the older Lucas equipment is the better it is, the 50's stuff is very well made, but later I'm less confident. The points on my '71 A65 were made of cheese and those steel bullet connectors were a crime.
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I'm not close to sure, but I think that might be a '58 A7. Regardless which model, did they have to use an A7 or A10 in the ad as an extra kick in the nuts? *angry* *rant* *lol*
Richard L.
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Lucas must have been complete idiots. Why would you advertise the fact that a bike with their equipment on it has broken down! Could you image the same advert placed by Honda or Nipondenso?! I wonder why the British motor industry went bust?!
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Lucas must have been complete idiots. Why would you advertise the fact that a bike with their equipment on it has broken down! Could you image the same advert placed by Honda or Nipondenso?! I wonder why the British motor industry went bust?!
It’s ad written with no regard for competition. The assumption was that drivers/riders were more or less stuck with Lucas products.
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I hate that 'prince of darkness' tag applied to Lucas. After being screwed down to a price by car and bike manufacturers, the equipment was the best for the price. I've got dynamos and magnetos that are still working well, far beyond their designed life. All they need is a little maintenance.
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You're lucky that no-one has posted those inevitable witty pics of the jar of Lucas smoke, or the "off-flicker-dim" headlight switch!
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I hate that 'prince of darkness' tag applied to Lucas. After being screwed down to a price by car and bike manufacturers, the equipment was the best for the price. I've got dynamos and magnetos that are still working well, far beyond their designed life. All they need is a little maintenance.
With you on that Bsareg. And I don't like the witty jar of smoke much either Rex.
With folk like Turner at Trihard and the other factory owners demanding components for silly money I reckon Lucas did pretty well. I also think the quality of some of their work was quite a bit better than some of the replica stuff available today - including most dynamo armatures. I've just replaced one on one of my AMCs, after it slung wires off the commutator after about 12000 miles (as they can do due to poor staking) but at least they're easy to repair. You can rebuild several E3Ls to an acceptable standard with the parts that are available for the price of one Alton alternator (which is hard to fix if it should go wrong), and using LEDs as I now do on my dynamo machines, getting home on a half decent battery isn't a worry.
FWIW, I don't think Miller or Wipac were any better - it was 'then' as opposed to 'now', expectations weren't the same and we were counselled to have magnetos, particularly, "serviced by a Lucas Service Agent every 10,000 miles". Even Bosch had its bad hair days.
Breaking down on more sophisticated moderns is far more troubling - and expensive. Nor is it that rare. I recall the failure of the alternator on my CB900F many years ago at 30K miles, which cost a lot and put the bike out of commission inconveniently while the bits had to be ordered up. More recently, thinking Japanese, my daughter had a Suzi Diversion that was plagued with electrical problems that took a lot of time to diagnose and sort, and a good mate had his Yamaha's alternator die on him when we were in Spain last year.
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Hi Andrew,
Love the new Avatar
John
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Didn't Wassel purchase the right to use the Lucas brand for classic car and motorcycle parts some years ago? As they did with Hepolite and probably other well known brands and I would think Wassel get a lot of parts manufactured in eastern countries - like almost everyone else does these days.
Rog,
Edit: Then we should be grateful that parts for our ancient vintage and classics are available today.
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I can source parts far more easily for the A10 than the W650, the former being reasonably priced and the latter fairly horrendous. Is this to do with the former breaking down more often and the latter being more reliable??? Have to say that there have been no problems on the Kwaka since I bought it. I may have to replace the rear mudguard at some point, but that'll be a form of 'modification' rather than a genuine part (which are about £200 or so last time I looked) *eek* *eek*.
I have to say, it is nice to get on a bike and know everything works, rather than hoping that the dynamo is working, the battery is charging, and the whole machine stays together on a long run.
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I can source parts far more easily for the A10 than the W650
Must be an age thing worty. You can get body parts and repair kits for elderly humans quite easily too!
When, if ever, your Kwakkeroo acquires the venerable status of your A, things might be easier. (Or not, woe, if there aren't any left and there's no demand!)
I was quite pleased to get a reasonable-quality rear chain & sprockets kit for my XJR a few months back for under £100 (special offer admittedly, and I had to use a soft link as it wasn't available endless) and although I haven't needed much for that bike over the 20 years I've had it, there seem to be more bits out there at affordable prices now than when it was 'Yamaha Main Agent or Do Without').
But even if bits become easier, the time it takes to fit them probably won't reduce - nightmares, some of them, like Musky's H-D the other week. Takes me all morning to change the plugs on my Yamaha, and I am dreading having to get the ramp of carbs off to replace the starting-to-crack inlet rubbery things that hold them on. Local mates who work on moderns tell me that the fasteners WILL snap, and the motor may have to come out for repairs . . . which it needs to anyway some point to enable me to extract/ replace damaged studs on the exhaust side which I have had to bodge. There are a lot of things about maintaining some of these shiny starships that ain't as easy as they should be . . .
If I think back to the 1970s, when I was running bikes from the '50s as my only daily transport, parts weren't easy at all except from breakers' yards (and often worse condition than what you were trying to replace). Then, when it was decided that they were 'classics' with more than a nominal tenner's worth of value (even if some of them were/are anything but), a market was born. I thank Classic Bike magazine for that as much as anyone, along with the perseverance of people like everyone here and in similar forums and clubs populated by people who never saw fit to abandon the things they'd grown up with, in the headlong to rush to 'modern only'.
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Reckon you're right Bill. Still, with the Kwakeroo, things are relatively straightforward, which is one of the reasons I bought the bike (one to fix, one to ride, sort of thing). It's a bit of a Triumph copy, with a lot of people (who don't know much about bikes) thinking it is one. It has the bevel drive to the camshafts, the shims are simplicity itself (move the rocker arms over to get at the shims) and, although the tank has to come off to get to the plugs, it's just pipes off and two 10mm bolts. Balancing the carbs is simple, once you have a homemade balancer. Chain adjustment is made easier with the notches on the s/a, the oil filter is super easy accessible, and the front disc is easy to service too.
The battery is a bit of a faff to get too, as are cleaning and oiling the air filters.
Kawasaki stopped making the bike in 2006, meaning only 6-7 years of production. If I ever put enough miles on it to warrant an engine rebuild, etc, I reckon that'll be the time when it'll either be considered 'at the end of its serviceable life' or 'restorable as a Japanese 'classic'. One thing is for sure, I won't be the one to rebuild it, so it'll be how valuable others consider it to be.
As for the A10, it'll continue its journey as a fussy, high maintenance classic, but will always be so and will always be restorable to someone, if not me.
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I've attached this photo on here before - but for some who may not have seen it.
It's Lucas branded and it came in a green Lucas box. The Royal Enfield underprint was only seen due to the photo being taken at such an angle and lighting that it could be seen. Click photo and look closely.
So it was definitely not manufactured by the respected Lucas Industries Ltd. and it had WW prefixing the part number, which clearly indicated it was supplied by Wassel.
Rog.
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The W650 is the most authentic “retro” bike I’ve seen.
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I've attached this photo on here before - but for some who may not have seen it.
It's Lucas branded and it came in a green Lucas box. The Royal Enfield underprint was only seen due to the photo being taken at such an angle and lighting that it could be seen. Click photo and look closely.
So it was definitely not manufactured by the respected Lucas Industries Ltd. and it had WW prefixing the part number, which clearly indicated it was supplied by Wassel.
Rog.
If it’s anything like the Madras Enfield ammeters, it’s a quality item.
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The W650 is the most authentic “retro” bike I’ve seen.
Yes, the Japanese have always produced high quality. If I see made in Japan I'm confident it'll be ok.
My first bike was a brand new Yamaha YDS-1, which I bought when in Malaya while serving in the Royal Marines. It was a 250 cc 2-cylinder, 2-stroke with twin carbs and 5 gears and with its 20 hp it was capable of over 80 mph. This was in 1962, when Japanese bikes were virtually unheard of here in the UK and we had our 250 cc BSA C15s, Royal Enfields, Matchless G2s, etc.
My YDS-1 was exactly as shown in this picture (pinched from elsewhere) as I didn't have a camera in those days.
Rog.
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G'day Fellas.
We're getting way off topic.
Cheers
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G'day Fellas.
We're getting way off topic.
Cheers
Fine with me.
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The W650 is the most authentic “retro” bike I’ve seen.
I know were a bit off topic, but bear with me.
I'd been looking through loads of bikes looking for something I actually liked, had style, was reliable, was a bit different and wasn't a non-descript, homogenised, plastic covered, anonymous thing on two wheels - then I saw the W and it all clicked. I could have bought a better example for a bit more, but this was local and seemed to have lived a bit of life - I bought it without looking at it, and I've not been disappointed. I wanted the carbs (not injection), the patina, and signs that it had been used in real life.
As for riding -I went to Dundee and back (600m) over a week - always felt effortless and comfortable - you just trust it to go anywhere at any time. One of the best buys I've ever made.
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Sounds like our A10! Could they be related?
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Sounds like our A10! Could they be related?
Brother from another mother??
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G'day Fellas.
We're getting way off topic.
Cheers
Musky, you tell us off in the nicest possible way *smile*
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I opted to stay with the Lucas magneto. Comforting to know that the sparks are independent of the electricals. I now have an overhauled spare, and I can be confident that I can change it at zero cost. My labour hasn't hurt my pocket. I admit it took several trips to the magneto overhauler to get both spot on. *whistle*
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As the old saying used to go, "good mag= heaven, failing mag= hell".
I never understood the rationale of converting tried and tested mag technology to a system involving electronic boxes and batteries.
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One of the reasons I wanted to go back to the 50's 60's for my motorcycling is that as an occasions rider I waste a lot of time charging or replacing batteries. To be able to leave a bike for 2 weeks and start it up easily is a big bonus. My last regular use bike was a Harley Sportster, the batteries cost £90, lasted 2 years and there was no kick starter. A large number of light aircraft flying today are on magnetos.
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One of the reasons I wanted to go back to the 50's 60's for my motorcycling is that as an occasions rider I waste a lot of time charging or replacing batteries. To be able to leave a bike for 2 weeks and start it up easily is a big bonus. My last regular use bike was a Harley Sportster, the batteries cost £90, lasted 2 years and there was no kick starter. A large number of light aircraft flying today are on magnetos.
Aye Rob! The W650 has a kick starter, so no issues with the battery going flat. I left it for 4 months and it still started on the button, so must be a decent battery too. Once the A10 has completed a run, it usually starts first or second kick! Interestingly, last summer, I was cleaning the Kwaka but had left the ignition on. As I was cleaning around the bars, I accidently touched the starter button (literally skimmed it) and it fired up straight away!!!!
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Gday Fellas.
I do miss the mag on the A's now and then.
What I love about the Boyer is the ease of timing (with a strobe and degree disc) and know it's exactly the same both sides. A tiny 4ah battery supplies the juice through a DVRII. The original 72 year old E3L supplies the berry's.
Back in the 80's my CB750FZ ate rotors, at least 3 from memory but to be fair that was over 250,000Km and 3 rebuilds.
Cheers
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A large number of light aircraft flying today are on magnetos.
Fitting a Lucas K2F magneto to an aircraft would be pretty sound evidence of attempted murder, I reckon.
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Good job aero mags are built to far higher specs then.
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And especially that there are always two of them Rex . . .!!
Don't know about the sorts of mags on contemporary light aircraft, but things like the BTH 4 cyl jobs on Gypsy Majors (Tiger Moths etc) or 6 cyl variants in Gypsy Sixes are not actually that far removed from their car equivalents. Screened HT bits, yup, and with proper bearings not bushes on the distributor shafts on some, and modest improvements at the contact breaker . . . but overall not so different. Same rotating coil guts as on the cars . . .
A bit higher up the scale, powerful aircraft from the 1920s used screened 'AC' and 'SC' versions of the BTH 'CE' inductor car magneto favoured by the likes of Lagonda and Alvis (truly beautiful instruments for beautiful cars), with 14 cylinder versions on eg the Tiger VIII Armstrong Siddeley (which was the first Brit-built two-stage supercharged engine). All wonderful stuff . . . but OTT for us natch, and I agree with TT, a K2F at 10,000 feet - no thanks!
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As an observation about our common friend/foe, it occurs to me that the “Lucas Advert” that started this conversation was just a spark to tinder (not the hook-up site) that could have caught fire by spontaneous combustion. For example, I think the same conversation may have ignited if the topic title had just been “Lu,” or maybe just “L.” *smile*
Richard L. (not “Lucas”)