The BSA A7-A10 Forum
Bikes, Pictures, Stories & more => Introductions, Stories, Meetings & Pictures => Topic started by: Byfleet Beeza on 06.09. 2022 14:42
-
So, back in 2014 I joined the forum.
I own a 1954 plunger A10 which I bought in 1987, It was lying outside a house on the Sussex seafront since 1979 as the engine had seized (usual sludge trap issue).
I still have the bike, now with the engine removed, etc and boxes of removed parts. The dismantling happened quite a few years ago, the engine out more recently. The good news is that it's all been garaged for the last 30 years!
However, as I get older I am now doubting my ability to do the work / ever get the work done to get it back on the road due to too many other projects and time etc.
Because the bike was left in the open for so long, it is not pretty, but it was complete. I don't want a showpiece; if I could use it more or less as is,a rusty beauty, that would do.
I will one day need to make a decision to either sell it as a basket case, find a restorer (even a basic repairer) to get it usable or find a mentor to spur me on and direct the order of work, etc, .
The sooner the better to get it usable!
I don't really want to part with the bike, and hope that someone will offer straightforward advice etc..
Thanks for your thougts.
-
Your age is not mentioned in you profile, but my interpretation of your post is that you feel you need to get a move on because you're not as young as you were. DAMHIK. If that's the case, my advice would be to sell it, because, again taking cue from your post, this restoration will take years. Not only that, but the restoration will probably exceed the value of the finished article (as is the case with most restorations).
Good luck.
-
RD's right there about the money. Coming out on top after investing your hard earned in a full restoration only happens in the world of TV entertainment. The decision is whether to play with what you have and get a runner without spending on the cosmetics, the so called oily rag resto, Fine if you really just want the satisfaction of bringing it alive once more, or just dust it off and try your luck on ebay. A rolling chassis is well within your skills, and will add value for little outlay. It then becomes a straightforward non runner, a real magnet for the more masochistic savers of lost causes.....You may also find that inside it's not as bad as first thought. These motors are simple, a wash and brush up may be all it needs, worst case is a crank grind and bearings.... a clean of the sludge trap and a good working oil pump. Used parts for anything major will be fine.
Swarfy.
-
If you're doubting your skills, enthusiasm, money available and time, then best to flog it as a project (it'll fetch good money on Ebay...everyone loves a BSA twin project it seems) and either buy a running A ranger or something else entirely.
If you get no pleasure from reconditioning bits of rusty motorcycle then don't kid yourself that you'll ever get it done.
-
If you're doubting your skills, enthusiasm, money available and time, then best to flog it as a project (it'll fetch good money on Ebay...everyone loves a BSA twin project it seems) and either buy a running A ranger or something else entirely.
If you get no pleasure from reconditioning bits of rusty motorcycle then don't kid yourself that you'll ever get it done.
I totally agree with the above, but be careful when buying a running A series, to make sure that it is not another project! A running B series is for many the best way to start BSA ownership.
Some people get their kicks from restoring old british bikes (some sell restored bikes without even starting them! - best avoided those bikes), some from riding them, some from doing both.
If you do decide to restore it, the “restore one part at a time” approach works well, for many it’s better than trying to plan the whole project by making lists of missing parts to be bought, and work to be outsourced, which can be overwhelming.
The wheels can be a good place to start, but would very quickly reveal the cost of restoring a bike to a rideable state, rims and spokes are often too rusty to be safe, so new parts and re-spoke job there, bearings should be replaced, brake shoes probably will need to be renewed, sprocket replaced. Then new tubes and tyres bought. If you want the patina look then you might find yourself looking for usable but rusty rims!
Owning a running old british bike, even a restored one, still means spending a fair bit of time down the shed 🤣
-
Here is one thing I think the forum should be for. We have a forum member in need of good advice, or help. He lives in North West Surrey. I would guess there are a dozen forum members within 20 miles who could stop by and take a first-hand look to offer opinions (or ogle the survivor, the bike, that is) and share beer or tea, and, maybe, even, bring some tools and help with the fettling. I mean, the engine has to come apart, maybe it takes two hours or so of teamwork to get to the answer on the internals. The future of the bike will be a lot clearer once that is known.
Richard L.
-
we all have a best before date but the longer you put off the project the closer it comes.
You need to make a decision and either rebuild it or sell it, lots of help and advice would be available here should you choose to proceed I dont think age is as big a factor as having the $$ to do the build , hard to come up with extra cash on a pension .....I am 74 and during covid I rebuilt my a10 motor..... bike runs great now feel like a teenager again taking it for a ride .
The decision is yours to make ......good luck hope you decide to save another BSA.
-
I dont think age is as big a factor as having the $$ to do the build , hard to come up with extra cash on a pension
If one is solely on a pension, I'd rule out major restoration - we're talking thousands £. The reference to age that I made was twofold: at my age (75) I've no intention of starting major new projects, for two reasons. First, things take much longer - I find nowadays four hours in the workshop is my limit. Gone are the days of working past midnight and starting again at 8am.
Secondly, bearing in mind the last sentence, is one likely to have the project finished before one's in one's box (in which case nothing has been advanced and the half-restored motorcycle / car may well end up sold for scrap). I'm still (relatively) fit for my age, but nevertheless am pragmatic about what I'd like to do and the reality of finishing it.
-
Hello.
Many thanks, everyone, for the helpful comments.
Age: I'm just eligible for the pension now, but time is definitely becoming a factor.
What I didn't mention was that the seized engine resulted in one piston smashing the bottom flange of the cylinder block, although years ago I fortunately bought a used spare, so a basic overhaul isn't going to work.
RD Fella is so right in that the restoration will exceed the eventual value. The financial side isn't currently a big issue and I like the idea of piece by piece restoration, and saving the bike.
I'll tread water for the time being, but if there's any 'local ' members who'd like a tea or coffe, I'd be really pleased to hear from them.
Thanks again, all..
Stephen.
-
My bike had been in my storage sheds and garages for 30 years. When I retired in 2010 I set about restoring it. It was lucky that I hadn't made a start on the work before then because the bike was pretty much complete. I'd advise anybody reading this to not start a restoration until you know you are going to be able to continue with it. Putting stuff in boxes and then trying to reassemble things years later is no fun.
I was keeping track of expenses on a spreadsheet but when I realised that the cost was getting close to £4k, (@ 2010 prices) I deleted the sheet in case my wife found it.
As I had been a bicycle, motor and motorcycle mechanic I was able to do a lot of the work myself. Parts, painting and plating was where most of the money was spent.
I don't think the concept of 'Oily Rag' bikes had caught on back then. I needed the mechanicals to be as good as I could get them. I doubt I could achieve that and retain 'patina'. I have a suspicion that the oily rag concept allows owners to get away with a bike that would not have passed the annual UK roadworthiness tests,(MOT) that are no longer required for older vehicles.
-
Hello.
Many thanks, everyone, for the helpful comments.
Age: I'm just eligible for the pension now, but time is definitely becoming a factor.
What I didn't mention was that the seized engine resulted in one piston smashing the bottom flange of the cylinder block, although years ago I fortunately bought a used spare, so a basic overhaul isn't going to work.
RD Fella is so right in that the restoration will exceed the eventual value. The financial side isn't currently a big issue and I like the idea of piece by piece restoration, and saving the bike.
I'll tread water for the time being, but if there's any 'local ' members who'd like a tea or coffe, I'd be really pleased to hear from them.
Thanks again, all..
Stephen.
Not a big deal you would have to strip it down to clean the sludge trap anyway ….. bag and tag everything and take lots of pics
-
... Feast your peepers on this GB, would you repaint it? Of course not. *smile*
Of course not. Is it yours?
I see machines at club weekends that really should not be on the road.
-
Firstly GB a lovely bike you have there.
Thank you. The oily rag culture makes me feel a tiny twinge of guilt.
-
I have a suspicion that the oily rag concept allows owners to get away with a bike that would not have passed the annual UK roadworthiness tests,(MOT) that are no longer required for older vehicles.
I stand by this.
-
... Feast your peepers on this GB, would you repaint it? Of course not. *smile*
Of course not. Is it yours?8
I see machines at club weekends that really should not be on the road.
Ooh. You would not want to be at Motoblot Chicago, then.
Richard L.
-
Hi Stephen, and All
Stephen, a little more backround information would help others offering "advice"
Are you currently riding motorcycles?
Are you handy with the spanners?
Do you have access to a reasonable garage/workshop?
Does your domestic situation allow you to disappear "down the shed" for the next couple of years
I am a similar age and have rebuilt / restored quite a few motorcycles and have most facilities to hand
(ie, full time work on bikes 2010 -2020) after redundancy 2009
back in 2009 I had 4 motorcycles to restore/ rebuild for myself, none have been completed *sad2*
So I decided to close the workshop to customers and finish my own bikes while I have time (fingers crossed)
In our mid sixties none of us have any idea of the time we have left and are more likely (me for 1) to have health problems that curtail our best intentions
Faced with your situation, do you enjoy riding bikes or working in the shed more?
If you want to ride and do not have other bikes, sell the BSA and buy a runner (preferably from a longer term owner enthusiast)
John
-
A lot of doom-and-gloom was predicted when the MoT test was scrapped for older vehicles, and no doubt there are bikes out there with faults that would have failed the test, but it seems the official thinking was largely correct in that if you ride an old bike then maintenance is a high priority anyway.
I have two patina'd bikes (the A7 isn't one of them) and both have been gone through by me thoroughly both for safety and reliability. Original paint doesn't make an unsafe bike.
That said, it seems to be riders of later (usually mundane) japanese bikes who go for the "as found" look and take it to a ridiculous degree.
-
The 'scrapping the MOT' concept referred by GB and its effect of slackening people's attitudes to their machines may well be right in some cases, I don't disagree with that at all. And Rex's point is spot on. But as Mitch says, not in all cases.
However, in countries where there has never been an MOT equivalent, like France, it's a moot point. And will remain one, now that the latest EU-driven attempt to impose regular tests has been scrapped through the unceasing efforts of the various motorcycle associations over here. The FFMC - Federation of French Motorcyclists 'en colère' (angry) is a formidable Motorcyclists' Action Group-like organisation.
Despite that, I wouldn't say the prevalence of clearly unroadworthy unrestored machines is any higher here than in the UK because most are well looked-after with their patina protected carefully - but the existence of some unroadworthy machines, restored or not, can't be gainsaid.
If there is one give-away for me it's the widespread use of solderless screw-on nipples on BRAKE cables . . . (for chrissake). I'm not sure if some makers actually used these things from new on lightweights or whatever . . . but when I see them used on quite potent machines it gives me that churning feeling in the guts.
A second clue is the failure to have any semblance of a working electrical system, apart from a magneto. In France, pre-'65 stuff doesn't need lights on by day (unlike in say Germany or Spain) but the lights are supposed to work if required. A lot of machines don't even have a battery fitted, let alone a working generator.
The advent of the Alton alternator, made here of course, has led to a significant improvement among Brit iron owners prepared to invest, but that still leaves a lot of blacked-out beasts trundling around. It's to be hoped that the proportion with illuminations will continue steadily to improve. (In this department, lightweights are often 'better' owing to their simple flywheel alternators.)
Frequency of 'failure to proceed' is a reasonable indicator of how well things are maintained I guess.
In the 20+ years I've been playing in France, the incidence of breakdowns on days out, and the signs of neglect and / or glaring incompetence have reduced considerably luckily, to the extent that quite often a support van or trailer isn't needed even for quite adventurous excursions. So there has been an overall improvement in habits, as breakdowns were part and parcel of most outings 15 or more years ago.
But when it comes to the few that do pack up, it's a quid to a pinch of s**t it's a shiny one!
-
My tuppence worth , my present bike is 90% the bike I bought back in1967 from my firm where i was a motorcycle salesman,who loved getting his hands dirty, oringinally a 59 shooter which I fell in love with and prayed noone would buy, the bike always being well hidden from the public didn't go unnoticed by my canny boss ,eventually it disappeared and was forgotten but a move for the workshop to our bigger premises brought it back ,Brod my boss said "you know that shooter you had your eye on I ve been asked to get rid do you what it " It turned out that the bike had been chosen to be the apprentices restoration project " and was in boxes except the bigger bits, assured it was all there and motor refurbed ,wheels rebuilt everything else in primer I bought it for £20 and as i say i've still got 90% ofher (other 10% lost to toe rags who nicked the frame) Now to the point I put that bike back together used it until kids mortgae etc saw it dismantled put in boxes and stored in the shed for for 30 yrs .
Now the point of this ramble , at that stage I believe iwas at the same point as our friend who posted this thread , a good mate got fed up of my moanings and gave me a verbal kick up the idiot ,basically" I've found you aframe ,its even got an 8" brake and forks soeither go get it or sell the f**King thing " i was anbout 55 then so not that far away from the author ,i went got the frame and wheel and did a full resto , had to relicence to tax and mot and most importantly I love it and have done for the last 17yrs plus ,so if money no option go get it done my friend the feeling on that first ride will make you feel 17 yrs old again, My wife smiles every time she hears my bootheels says just the same as when you and I were courting so A10's not just a great bike but a partial time machine ,either way best of luck Bob
-
I used to be acquainted with a bike builder who would turn out immaculate machines, one of which suffered a catastrophic rear wheel failure and killed it's rider.
Mitch,
That's a bit of a wakeup. Next time my bike is ready to ride I'll be taqqqking a real careful look at those wheels (and everyting else that could end Richard L.).
Bob,
"Time machine" is exactly how I think of my bike.
Stephen,
I can understand your quandry, but many of us are thinking that, if it was ours, it would already be apart. Nevertheless do what's best for you. Maybe you'd like to be our guinea pig for what it's like to own a brand new Gold Star? *smile* (Or, maybe, a new
Triumph Bonneville, the descendant of the bike I drooled over when visiting Bud Ekin's shop in Van Nuys, California 57 years ago, or so.)
Richard L.
-
No sooner had I stopped thumb typing, Elizabeth II was gone.
-
Ithink most older people had a soft spot for Lizzie , just been emailing Woz, He calls Charles Rex "big ears"I said no He's an a**e hole but then remembered that organ is useful and hard working !
-
I've just gone back to the beginning and now we have a bit more about the engine failure, here are a few more thoughts.
This bike is substantially complete. Does it have any papers? First step would to see if it is on the DVLA database, if not take steps to get the number retained and a V5 Document issued. Whether restored to running order or sold on as a project, this is a clean hands exercise that adds value.
When I mentioned "Oily Rag" I meant a simple clean and preservation of the existing major components to prevent further deterioration. Sure, the chrome has rust, but the rusty wheels will still turn, the exhaust still works. Restoring and replacing these parts to look like new costs big money, leave that to someone else. However, safety critical parts must be A1 If you intend to use it on the road. Wheels will be the biggest expense here.
Enginewise, all the parts are available, but a few pictures will help us get a handle on what's what and how bad it is.
Can't be worse than this, which was successfully coaxed back into life.
Swarfy
-
Hi All
the rusty wheels will still turn
I have been bitten quite badly when a front wheel tube went Bang *ex* and pitched me over the top back in 2001
The puncture was caused by a piece of peeling chrome.. Although I had given the wheel a really good power wire brushing and new tyre tube and rim tape
Since then I am paranoid about rust on rims and inner tube quality
John
-
Hi All
the rusty wheels will still turn
Since then I am paranoid about rust on rims and inner tube quality
John
Me too (paranoid that is). Michelin Moto X tubes are as thick as some tyre walls almost, and although they are more expensive and a big pain to fit especially on front rims, they are my preferred ones. Really really heavy duty. I have one or two rims that aren't exactly pristine . . . and have also had tubes chafe and fail.
-
Well getting back to the original post, I am going to be very blunt. Make your mind up now ether sell it or restore it don't put it off any longer. If you want to sell it you can not sell it as a basket case because it is not a basket case it is a complete bike. My first restoration was a basket case it was a complete bike in bits a supposed A10 but it was different models and years, but I had it restored and on the road in under a year. Now if you are going to restore it only you know what skills time and finance you have available if you have not got enough of those 3 things then sell it, you don't have to go for a full pristine restoration you could just get it into a good roadworthy rideable state and enjoy it. So please make a decission and act on it. also let us here on the forum know what you have decided and if restoring keep us informed with pictures if possible.
-
Ooh, bossy boots!
-
Hello, All.
The bike has a V5, etc.
The wheels haven'a flake of chrome left
I haven't been on a bike for 25 years.
I have full UK m/cycle licence
I have a Tiger Cub also in appalling condition but complete, not seized, but can't get it to spark..... (also not touched for 25 years).
I shouldn't have started on the A10, but I had a friend who inspired me to start. Should have known better as he had a RE Constellation he'd taken to bits, and never re-assembled.
My main mentor with several old bikes unfortunately moved abroad 30 years ago, so I have what I have and although competent in head gaskets, am a bit lost with the bottom end, timing, etc..
I've decided if I can to get the Cub usable, perhaps will be inspired to progress the A10.
Quite frankly, and some of you will shout 'shame', it is not worth selling the A10 because A) I won't find another and B) the proceeds will earn £20 pa interest.
I think your combined advice has now clarified my mind to try to get on with it!
Thanks, all, and thank you for not being blatantly rude and agressive about it!
-
Hi Steve,
Thanks for the update,
Since its been 25 years since you have been motorcycling I would advise getting some lessons before getting back on the road, A lot has changed in that time *ex*
The group here will pitch in and help you with any questions on the A10
John
-
To give you some incentive. Mine was in a garage for 50 years. I took it apart made sure everything was serviceable. New wheel bearings, head bearings, loom, seat, tyres, fork seals, reground valves, cleaned sludge trap. (Almost blocked)+ gaskets etc. Engine is basic to work on if your're careful. This forum is full of good info as i found out. Now up and running loving it.
-
On the rims, I have half a dozen rims that I have discarded due to corrosion on the “inside” as opposed to the part you can see when the tyre is fitted. I did not use these rims as rust had obviously eaten away some of the strength in the rim (mainly the part “folded over”)…. although I guess they would pass a WOF aka MOT in UK (with rusty spokes replaced) but they would not be anywhere as strong and safe as when they were new.
One could treat and paint the inside of the rim, but there is not a lot one can do about the inaccessible areas under the ”fold”.
A chrome flake causing a puncture had not occurred to me but that is another factor to be considered.
If you have to pay for a wheel re spoke it might be hard “financially” to ask for the old rim to be used when you could pay a little more for a new rim *eek* and with some hub designs it can tricky if not impossible to replace just the spokes that are too rusty, also nipples get rusted onto spokes making trueing the wheel after a spoke is replaced “escalate” into a full re-spoke.
I have heard of people re-chroming rims but they would have to be in very good condition to make that viable.
When going along at 60 mph and pitching into a bend the last thing you want is to start worrying about any sort of mechanical failure.
I guess what I am saying is that more likely than not the wheels will be an expensive part of any restoration.
-
As long as the rims are structurally sound you could get them blasted and powder-coated to save the costs of buying new, and galvanised spoke sets aren't expensive, so the wheels needn't be that costly especially if you teach yourself how to lace them up. ;)
-
I reckon at some stage that bike has had a sidecar. Siamese exhaust, flat profile to the rear tyre, and I would expect to find the rear sprocket is the dinner plate 49 teeth version. Solo A10 is 42 teeth.
To proceed, even at a slow pace is a good decision. Remember these bikes were made at a time when the engineering was simple and the parts relatively robust. All the help is here, all that is is short supply is the motivation.
What can be done with your neglected machine is Roy's bike pictured above. Inside its all fine and dandy, outside it wears the years with pride, functions as it should, and I'd hazard it has been of more interest than one that has had ££££'s spent and only comes out on fine days. It really is the perfect cosmetics that eat up the cash and make you very wary of risking it out on the road. Not for me, I'm a cheapskate.
I could say half the work has been done already, the motor is out, in bits. For now I'd dig a little deeper into the engine failure. Some more detailed pictures of the damage. Meantime take steps to prevent more deterioration. Get that WD sprayed on, give it a rub and make a start. Just giving it a good clean and a rub over will transform it, and is good enough for now. Keep a logbook of what you find, what you did, what it cost. Some would remark to keep this in a very safe place.
I said safety critical parts have to be A1. Brakes, Wheels, Frame. I won't say wheels are critical during a restoration, as long as they turn you have a rolling chassis. But they can be left 'til last and there's a good chance that over time a better pair will come along. Even as they are, the hubs are the part they no longer make so should be kept. These days they can do powder coat that looks like chrome, this looks OK even on sound but pitted surfaces. Chrome shows every blemish, so Rex's suggestion is another excellent and cheaper option when the time comes. Same for that scarred barrel, it can be repaired, cost being the only barrier, so hang on to that for now, it will be worth something to someone, sometime. I would never scrap original factory parts if I could help it.
Swarfy.
-
Thanks for that update what you need now is confidence and determination the fact that you have not ridden a bike for 25 years or done much work on them should not stop you. I first gave up bikes in my mid 20's I came back to them when I was approaching 60 am now 80 over the years I have done a few restorations below is some photos of my first 2 so you can see what you can do if you are determined enough there is nothing complicated about BSA bikes of the 50's and 60's. Both bikes took about 12 months from start to finish.