The BSA A7-A10 Forum
Bikes, Pictures, Stories & more => Introductions, Stories, Meetings & Pictures => Topic started by: Rocket Racer on 27.01. 2017 03:21
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There was a fair bit of discussion on the for sale thread when a very rusty looking but unmolested very early road rocket went on flea bay last year.
Now as the owner of a replica '55 RR track only machine, a genuine unmolested early as RR from the first year (the 128th made of a few hundred) rang my bell.
Now I'm a great believer in preserving the stories these bikes tell and the '54 was a one owner bike with low miles still sporting the original dealer decals.
So the plan is to quietly strip it to replace all the bearings and seals, inspect and unless I find disasters retain all the original "features". I won't be in a hurry, I have the super rocket mobile but this bike is a keeper. I can live with the peeling chrome.
This bike will (all going to plan) just be mechanically worked through and preserved, then ridden!
Twin port head/10TT9 carb as standard *dribble*
I'm currently just enjoying looking at it...
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Hi Tim,
my congratulations to this awsome bike *yeah*
For preserving the authentical look,the best results were given with Owatroloil.
I found an english translation about in net. Here is the link.
http://owatrol.com/en/all-our-products/7936-owatrol-oil.html
May be its availalable in NewZealand.
I still wait for my set of enginecases coming back, to make the promissed engingestand for you.
So you can split the cases and build up the engine without falling off the bench or using a vice.
cheers Klaus
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Thats just perfect RR, I believe it's called patina and if it was mine... The car mobs in AU are fixing the mechanicals of barn finds and clear coating the paint, IMHO a great look.
My '48 Longstroke needs a cosmetic make over, but will prolly never happen as I like the way it makes it look older. Always a great conversation starter too, one mate says when are you going to restore it?, another mate says don't you Fn touch it! *eek*
As ever, it's your bike so do it as you wish. Cheers TC
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Well I'm very interested in how you get along Tim, and I guess so will be quite a few others.
I'm trying the "preserve" approach on my old Armstrong (car) - the effort in retaining "patina" is not always appreciated!
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Thanks guys, they sell owatrol oil in Oz, so maybe I can get a can sent over.
I still have a lot of clearing up to do from moving house and this bike needs some space so I can quietly go through it.
It certainly won't happen overnight but I will keep the forum up to date and Klaus that engine stand could be just the ticket.
Hoping to take the super rocket for a coffee run this weekend over to Helensville, the national BSA rally is in a four weeks down to New Plymouth (Inglewood) and looking forward to some good riding with friends over the summer.
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She looks great Tim.
I had my A7 restored back to how it was when I bought it in 1976, it was shiny then and its quite shiny now (lots of chrome and paint done in the 80’s but never used). I then bought the A10 because of its history and it continues to grow on me, it’s a lovely bike and rides really well. its a joy to tell its story when asked if I am going to ‘do it up’. On the subject of one owner bikes, the Norton Model 7 I bought, was a one owner bike. The problem is the owner knew it so well and ‘used’ it so he did not care about using metric nuts and bolts and just making things work. Then as he aged and used it less he just kept patching things but never tested them on the road. She is back in one piece but I think maybe I should have stripped her and checked inside as well as out. Again she has never been restored and to me looks great.
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Looks good to me as is, Tim. Much to be said for riding an unrestored bike, IMO. I've seen too many restored bikes that people then didn't ride because it was a job to clean them after, afraid of scratches or other damage, etc. Especially with multiple bikes, it's too easy to spend time cleaning/polishing rather than riding. Nothing wrong with that, if that's what you enjoy, but I'd rather just ride!
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Over here they call it un-restored/restored.
Mechanically everything is gone through and works very well.
The looks of the car (or bike in this case) is only ever altered to keep the vehicle stable from deteriorating further, or to keep it safe to use.
I have never done this, but I understand it takes a lot of effort to pull off well.
Its not hard to imagine what the bike would look like with one brand new shiny rim or a new set of mufflers.
Kind of the opposite effect of a dent in the side of a brand new car. *conf*
Lee
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Lee, I know what you mean. much of the chrome could readily be redone as the parts are not painted, but of course the tank as a central piece cannot without repainting. The mufflers are totally stuffed, the rims have completely peeled and some of the stays have little chrome left, yet the guards are still really good. The front of the tank on both sides has lost or will lose chrome as its all lifted.
I took the seat off and the base was sound, not the slightest issue .
A full respray and rechrome would be much easier.
The control cables I've looked at are badly corroded. But looking in the primary inspection and GB inspections no sign of corrosion inside.
The header pipes are really good.
This bike will give me a lot of head scratching; the barrel for example, should I repaint it. The battery case is sound but no paint left so may make sense to paint things that are not visible.
The garage does need some more organising before I properly start on this ; now whats that adage about the road to hell being paved with good intentions.
Tim
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The garage does need some more organising before I properly start on this ;
Tim
So just sit in the big comfy seat in the garage, grab a beer, and contemplate the new direction of this Man Art
Cheers Peter
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yes the garage does have a beer fridge...
am going for a ride tomorrow.
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Tidying the shed, putting up shelves, making lists, cleaning the bike, are all good ways of keeping the progress going when stuck for ideas and/or motivation I reckon.....
One possible approach to rusty parts, or those with bad chrome is clear coat them? I'm not sure how long that lasts but there are some very rusty looking cars about, that have been clear coated to keep them semi preserved that way.
Quite a mind set change to try to retain rust, rather than automatically remove it!
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Did some preliminary investigation today: took off the exhausts, tank, sump plate, oiltank drain and magneto.
plenty of sludge, little oil but no rust and everything came off without any forcing.
The rh footrest is a bit bent as is the footrest bolt and some scraping under the rh pipe. some evidence of a wiring issue near the regulator and battery.
One of the pipes is stamped A10RS, they have a clear kick up towards the rear. Both mufflers are totally shot, one fell off when I removed the pillion foot rest and the rh pipe had a baffle extension in the header *conf2* hadn't seen that before
I didnt photograph the tank underside, but the unfaded red is stunning.
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I know that with things like the barrels, you dont completely repaint them. You clean up the rusty spots and then paint those spots with the closest match you can get.
Thats the preservation part.
Its never going to match, but anyone who knows what they are looking at will be able to see the original paint was left and the barrels are being well looked after. Same thing for any other painted surface. You do the best you can to save all the original paint that you can, but foremost must be the preservation of the machine as a whole from further deterioration.
I know you are still mulling over what to do with the bike, and the above is a metric-ass-ton of work.
You could still completely restore the bike using all the original parts, get all the original hardware cad plated, get the tank rechromed, etc.
Or just rebuild it, and only replace parts that fall off or fail.
Whichever way you go its a beautiful bike, and its going to be fun. *smile*
Lee
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Have been quietly investigating and this morning lifted the head.
Sadly it has been stored with either a plug out or a valve open as one bore is clean the other rusty and stuck.
But some interesting observations: the bore looks like its still std, which might be the case for a bike with a claimed 11k on the speedo and only used for 9 years. However the pistons are 7.25:1 flat tops *doubt* and the rocker box to head gaskets are thin alloy and nicely made.
The cush drive on the crank is also 4 lobe.
The primary was all in good order, no corrosion, but the clutch nut wasn't tight and once I'd flattened the tab washer was able to undo it without a spanner. Have yet to remove clutch centre, I hate doing those they have fought me on so many bikes.
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Those pistons had me thinking. The barrel would lift but one piston was well stuck. Heat was applied and using a wooden block and a puller, the barrel was quietly lifted, sadly some nasty ring corrosion into that seized bore, but definitely still STD *yeah*
So what do I find next but a heavy crank *pull hair out* I didnt think they came out until '56 and that the early '54's simply had a polished SJ *dunno*. I may have to hand back in my anorak. I wasnt expecting those pistons or that crankshaft.
Now I have yet to pull the bottom end apart but I certainly didnt expect to find a large journal crank in a '54.
If it does have a LJ crank, it'll definitely stand the +20 genuine BSA +20's 8:1 I have *loveit*
Corrosion is a strange thing, one of the front engine plates looks mint, but the other is all rusty and crappy.
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I was wondering if it might have a LJ or SJ, but figured a LJ.. *conf*
Have yet to remove clutch centre, I hate doing those they have fought me on so many bikes.
a bit out of my league these days (Plunger= splined cutch), but how does a 'tap' or two on the side with a copper/brass drift/hammer go- that is with a complementary something on the opposite side to allay bent shaft..?
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I was wondering if it might have a LJ or SJ, but figured a LJ.. *conf*
Have yet to remove clutch centre, I hate doing those they have fought me on so many bikes.
a bit out of my league these days (Plunger= splined cutch), but how does a 'tap' or two on the side with a copper/brass drift/hammer go- that is with a complementary something on the opposite side to allay bent shaft..?
Amazingly the clutch centre came off very easily, I found a nut the right size and nipped up a puller which then dropped off and when I put it on a second time realized the centre had popped off the taper *conf2* Have never had a centre come off that easily before.
My '55 race engine (another road rocket motor) was (STD) small journal with 356 and 8:1 (+20) as acquired, so I assumed the '54 would be too. Hard to see while bottom end's together but negligible cam or follower wear.
Will be really cool if its an LJ. Its definitely solid as, so certainly appears to be the heavy crank. I guess even in a 9 year lifecycle and 11000 miles it could arguably have had a crank change *dunno* Its certainly in prime condition under the layer of sludge
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RR, is the barrel thick or thin flange?
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RR, is the barrel thick or thin flange?
Thick flange and still standard sized, excepting a rust ring, so a very good barrel
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Large journal (heavy/transitional type) crank, on std shells and timing side. no repunching of sludge trap, This motors premo ;D
Nice tidy 356 cam. rods had the castled nuts and split pins, not planning to reuse those bolts.
Timing bush is a two piece so may be worth replacing with a 1 piece one.
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The big ends and timing side crank are still within tolerance and can stay standard *woo*
the bush is due for replacing, and two differing opinions on whether to keep the bores standard as some rust form sitting. But at present everything is standard and will probably leave the bores standard too.
Have just ordered a pile of parts from Draganfly and a new carb slide to the 10TT9 from Amal carbs (aka Burlen) , certainly wasnt impressed with their (Burlens) standard rest of world postage charge of 25 quid! You can add a message to the order and mine was they should be ashamed of themselves for that.
Certainly had me pondering their parentage. *shh* I don't mind paying fair freight but 25 quid for posting a carb slide *razz*
Interestingly the unmolested motor had two bent studs, one (a back barrel stud) of which had damaged the case (two cracks) and both appeared to have been related to poor factory assembly.
Huge shout out to Klaus for the engine stand *wink2* awesome.
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I'd be happy to get involved with purchasing and posting items from the UK if it helps anyone. I already did this for a chap in the USA who needed a blank sprocket.
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I'd be happy to get involved with purchasing and posting items from the UK if it helps anyone. I already did this for a chap in the USA who needed a blank sprocket.
That was me GB, and again- you are a saint Sir! *beer*
I feel your pain RR, If I purchased two washers from across the pond I am going to pay 10 pounds shipping no matter what. *sad2*
I think all these places get a shipping cost to the most remote destination in the world, where things have to be delivered by dog sled, then they double it and thats what they charge everyone for worldwide. *angry*
Many of our old Brit bike parts over here are as you describe, still on standard. Rebuilding them just wasn't easily done by the average owner I dont believe. It must have been very hard for the everyday man in America to maintain a British bike in the 50s and even late 60s. The fasteners are odd (too us) as are the tools, not to mention things like Lucas magnetos. I think many just gradually fell apart and and when wood screws and hose clamps would not keep it going they were parked in sheds and forgotten.
Same thing with mid 60s to mid 70s Japanese bikes, you can still find them rusting away with less than 10,000 original miles in barns all over.
Lee
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I'd be happy to get involved with purchasing and posting items from the UK if it helps anyone. I already did this for a chap in the USA who needed a blank sprocket.
That was me GB, and again- you are a saint Sir! *beer*
I feel your pain RR, If I purchased two washers from across the pond I am going to pay 10 pounds shipping no matter what. *sad2*
I think all these places get a shipping cost to the most remote destination in the world, where things have to be delivered by dog sled, then they double it and thats what they charge everyone for worldwide. *angry*
Many of our old Brit bike parts over here are as you describe, still on standard. Rebuilding them just wasn't easily done by the average owner I dont believe. It must have been very hard for the everyday man in America to maintain a British bike in the 50s and even late 60s. The fasteners are odd (too us) as are the tools, not to mention things like Lucas magnetos. I think many just gradually fell apart and and when wood screws and hose clamps would not keep it going they were parked in sheds and forgotten.
Same thing with mid 60s to mid 70s Japanese bikes, you can still find them rusting away with less than 10,000 original miles in barns all over.
Lee
Any bike thats lived its life in New Zealand has usually been rebuilt 10 times including by some ham fisted moron. The import protections here back in the day meant bikes were run into the ground and bodged. Your unmolested US bikes are a godsend to us *loveit*
Its a credit to these bikes that we can still keep them going so long after they were intended.
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I think many just gradually fell apart and and when wood screws and hose clamps would not keep it going they were parked in sheds and forgotten.
I bough my Gutzzi from a guy who was in cahoots with a guy in the US, and in the same shipment was a many bunch of low mile (less than 2-3 K miles) A65's and Tr..trr...rr- tryasImightIcantsayit's , but mine had obviously done some and came from Michigan..but still good value
I think all these places get a shipping cost to the most remote destination in the world, where things have to be delivered by dog sled, then they double it and thats what they charge everyone for worldwide. *angry*
I needed a flywheel puller for my Solo Rex Chainsaw, and bought one from UnZudd, and the puller was something like ~AUd$17+ postage AUD$29 = Aud$46 , but I bought the wrong friggin' one- never trust ones memory- *bash* *bash* *bash*, found the correct one locally - ~$19 *conf*
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The big ends and timing side crank are still within tolerance and can stay standard *woo*
the bush is due for replacing, and two differing opinions on whether to keep the bores standard as some rust form sitting. But at present everything is standard and will probably leave the bores standard too.
Have just ordered a pile of parts from Draganfly and a new carb slide to the 10TT9 from Amal carbs (aka Burlen) , certainly wasnt impressed with their (Burlens) standard rest of world postage charge of 25 quid! You can add a message to the order and mine was they should be ashamed of themselves for that.
Certainly had me pondering their parentage. *shh* I don't mind paying fair freight but 25 quid for posting a carb slide *razz*
Interestingly the unmolested motor had two bent studs, one (a back barrel stud) of which had damaged the case (two cracks) and both appeared to have been related to poor factory assembly.
Huge shout out to Klaus for the engine stand *wink2* awesome.
Nzpost in the form of "Youshop" will forward parcels from the UK......just get burlen to send it to the Youshop depot in the uk.....
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I do use youshop mainly from the states for fleabay, as the UK stuff you get pinged the VAT if posted locally so often no better off.
I've just seem the quote from draganfly for parts and 25 quid suddenly seems inconsequential and I may need a lie down
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Its been a while and progress has been slow.
The bore wear and damage did result in a first os rebore to +20 and I've sourced NOS pistons.
The crank had some ovality and was marginal so it too has gone 1st undersize. A shame, but I do expect to use it not put it in a museum.
Bush replaced, crank balanced, sludge trap cleaned, magneto rebuilt locally by an electrical Engineer (who has got into doing mags after being very disappointed by NZ wide lack of expertise -I can supply details if required).
Had some minor frame repair done to the sidestand area and one of the battery box mounts and touched up worst of swing arm surface rust and on frame.
I'm going to take a minor break from racing to move this forward although its still competing with several "other" projects.
I bought some silencers off Feked and they are not the same as the originals *problem*, but similarish and will do as a start, a wee bit annoyed.
I have been pottering with getting the frame ready to accept reassembly of ancilliaries but really need to invest in reassembling the bottom end of the engine.
Thought I was getting ruthless in culling the shed, have flogged off my 84 BMW (too modern and the band doesnt play) and need to move on my '72 rocket three *cry*, but cough cough do seem to have added an OIF lightning and a winged wheel to the garage *eek*
I'll post some pics soon
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G'day RR.
I've got room for the RocketIII !
What % balance?
Cheers
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Musky,
I'll dig out the balance paperwork, but heres a pic of the r3 taken yesterday
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Coming in late to this discussion, but that's not a candidate for restoration to me....it's just "nice".
Some mechanical repairs and off you go.....seen too many old bikes lose all identity from amateur resto's, and seen too many stripped and never finished by amateur restorers too!
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G'day RR.
Yum but it's only 3/4 of a R3. The front 1/4 looks trihard disc brake. I'll still hide it in my shed from your other half!
Is it 4 or 5 speed?
Cheers
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G'day RR.
I've got room for the RocketIII !
What % balance?
Cheers
B/F for the RR 63%
I do ponder retrofitting the A75 back to conical front end, have most of the expensive bits. But then there's the '55 racing road rocket, the 54, and several others in the queue first.
It was a 4 sp when I got it, its got 5 now with a spare 4 speed in a box
Dont forget all the T160's came fully built out of small heath, too complicated for meriden to handle.
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Progressing very slowly, heads all cleaned up, need to assemble the bottom end, working on the wheels. A bit of distraction (first world problems) with the lightning and rocket three, both of which I may look at moving on to reduce the fleet a bit
But things are quietly happening
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G'day RR.
It's all about time, money and space. None of which I have. I had a '72 Lightening (grey frame) in the late 70's. The only alloy on the whole bike that wasn't highly polished were inside the webs on the hubs. What year is yours?
Cheers
Ps: Bought a few parts off Brent Hyde (V&H racing) who punts around a CB900/1100 in classic racing over there. He's building a all TITANIUM frame at the moment. He has a cylinder head and block for sale. $20,000US *eek*
See 1st sentence ^^^.
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G'day RR.
It's all about time, money and space. What year is yours?
Cheers
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The lightnings late 71 series, an EE, chromes rough, its a canadian import. Has the sweetest A65 motor I've ever sampled. Hums along at 70mph very comfortably, Unlike one I had in Brisbane back in the early nineties that used to shake my fillings loose and hated the freeway cruising speed, I still loved it...
They all need time and money and preferably regular use!
The master plan is to sell both my seventies beesa's and keep the three fifties beesa's (the '51 ZB33, and the '54 road and '55 race road rockets). And then there is also a late 53 black shadow in the mix for longer trips... just doing some minor work on before that is mobile and it can be revinned for the spring. Its at a mates as don't have the space with the kids mini's clogging up space.
Will post some more road rocket progress pic's which should help me focus...
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Finally got to spend some time on the road rocket motor last weekend, I've ground a few thou off the old drive side bearing so its a loose sliding fit on the crank for review of the end float before I fit the new bearing
I also reviewed my 356 cam and it has some minor wear, so I'll run a spare new 357 cam I had (not really a preference but a perfectly good cam), this did however require some work on the cam tunnel which didnt quite have clearance for the cam lobes.
Lots of distractions in the shed and also in the household but hope to have the bottom end together in next few weeks.
I know the cam followers need review and the valve guides need replacing so a few more things to do.
Klaus, your engine stand is coming in very handy!
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rocket racer I am sure you are a wise man but I ground a bearing down to measure end float and the new one was slightly different when it came to setting the float, so I had to get pen and paper and fry my small capacity brain to allow for the difference *eek*
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RR, does your set of cases have the cam tunnel bored to suit a higher lift cam?
I have seen '54 cases bored, unlike the Flash cases.
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there must be some odd castings in these cases both sets of my A7 ss cases will take a 357 cam no trouble *dunno*
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Maybe the A7SS cases were bored also as they had the 356 cam like the Rocket.
Years ago when I fitted a 357 cam to my '55 Flash I had to ease the cases as they were as cast.
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I had to make a little room in the trough to fit the 357 into the A7 plunger *work* *sarcastic* The SS cases were OK.
Cheers
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rocket racer I am sure you are a wise man but I ground a bearing down to measure end float and the new one was slightly different when it came to setting the float, so I had to get pen and paper and fry my small capacity brain to allow for the difference *eek*
Have never claimed wisdom, I own BSA's ! likewise was aware of that risk between bearings not being the same end sized, so was planning to do a comparison and some dreaded maths. Will provide feedback on how successful this is ... didnt get beyond a first dummy mock up so not there yet
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The trough size issue is common on the 54/55 motors -neither of my two sets of early road rocket cases would take a 357 without more clearance effort. I guess the 357 was a later cam, the motors being built around the earlier 356 cam.
My guess is all the later sports motors were machined for the 357. Possibly all later cases were so machined.
a 356 came out of this motor...
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yes later cases must have been cast with a bigger trough, on the ss cases I have from 1960 there is no sign of tool work in the drive side and just a touch on the timing side from the inner bush that ends half an inch from the oil feed hole in the trough.
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have had the wheels rebuilt with some good used rims. Look much better. The original rims were deeply corroded. having some issue loading pics but will try. the new rims are not mint, but not out of keeping and improve safety being sound.
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My goodness the patina and decals on those tanks is gold. That is a lovely find indeed. Reminds me of my old ES2 barn find though that was a more gone than your RR...still amazing what a tube of Autosol will do though. Changed the oil and rode it for 6 years, didnt miss a beat.
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finally have enough bits back to reassemble the motor
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now that looks blooming lovely shame about the nuts-------------- JOKE!!!!!!!
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now that looks blooming lovely shame about the nuts-------------- JOKE!!!!!!!
the scary thing is I have two more twin port heads in the queue for taking in for repair, my rig had a methanol flooding issue which wore out the LH cyl and valves on that side (washed clean by flooding) in one race... so needs a rebuild and the head for the planned A7ss project is going to be a money pit.
I'm not polishing my nuts *eek* but they will be cleaned.
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RR,
May I ask what the cleanup method is on the head? Some form of blasting media, I assume. (Confess to not reading every post before posing this question. Sorry if redundant.)
Richard L.
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RR,
May I ask what the cleanup method is on the head? Some form of blasting media, I assume. (Confess to not reading every post before posing this question. Sorry if redundant.)
Richard L.
Richard, sorry mate, I dont actually know, the guys who did the head had it cleaned so they could work with it and I didnt ask. But it does have me pondering the other less immaculate bits which will probably remain less immaculate as long as this doesnt stick out to much. I suspect it will blend in fairly promptly and wasnt planning to have other cases polished up, just a bit of autosol.
Tim
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RR I had an ss head inlet tract opened up and gas flowed and fitted with super rocket inlets at the cylinder head shop. very good job but £500 , and it is still waiting for me to get sorted and build the berger project. I have been sorting through some setts of barrels today ready for boring and taking the crank for balancing. I must get moving time fly's
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RR I had an ss head inlet tract opened up and gas flowed and fitted with super rocket inlets at the cylinder head shop. very good job but £500 , and it is still waiting for me to get sorted and build the berger project. I have been sorting through some setts of barrels today ready for boring and taking the crank for balancing. I must get moving time fly's
this original head was just a bit tired but cost a similar amount. It all adds up pretty quick.
Am very conscious I'm not getting any younger with the race projects but hope to have many years of enjoyment from this road one. Time keeps ticking by though! thankfully I do now have a workspace I can develop, work in and very keen to progress this bike.
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G'day RR.
Yum, yum, yum.
I'd guess at soda blast as my head came back the same.
You didn't think of valve stem seals before the guides went in?
Cheers
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G'day RR.
Yum, yum, yum.
I'd guess at soda blast as my head came back the same.
You didn't think of valve stem seals before the guides went in?
Cheers
The only bike I've fitted them to was the A75 on the inlet valves. Have never really gone there since. The last valve issues I had were both loose guide related. Both vincent and the ZB33 were oiling due to loose guides.
Bender my chair needs work but again he's smoking because the methanol (float problem) rinsed all the oil out of the LH cylinder and guides. So not sure I generally see the need (I'm a simple man and no expert) . My general opinion is the only time oil will be sucked down the guides is when engine braking and the throttles shut creating a vacuum. But no, didnt think about them. *whistle*
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The A7 plunger is next in line for attention. I'll be looking to do it. Notrun seals are supposed to fit.
Cheers
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Once I have finally put the engine together something I havent really considered is the clutch. this bike still has a complete six spring wonder clutch. Now I could put my anorak on and keep it (which might be a sensible starter for 10) but I could also do the unthinkable and just fit a nice quiet BNR belt driven bullet proof clutch with decent bearings just by opening wallet and increasing the mortgage...Have to ponder dynamo drive too. to Belt or not to Belt that is the question...
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belt it tim! its no show pony
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belt it tim! its no show pony
can I keep my anorak? (inquiry now sent to Bob)
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Hi Tim, just my opinion, but I don’t like 6 springers, the buckle in some new steels is time consuming to get out, but saying that if the steel plates are PERFECT then go for it. I also think oil in the primary should be there! So apart from my Daytona (an original 6 spring ), I do run all 4 spring clutches, including the 54 RR salt bike I’m waiting to run, now next March.
I did run a belt in my 57 flash quite some time ago, and in ‘my’ opinion the lack of a cush is to ‘me’ evident. The belts used are akin to a timing belt, and so! have minimal or no flex. On my 57 flash the drive gear was an alloy unit (some time ago now), and when I looked at it after 3 years running so , and no serious miles on it, for no real reason the splines were about half the thickness, ( yes 65 fb on the nut), however my thoughts went to the fact of no cush. So from there on in, I run 4 spring (I used to use Lyfords clutches but now SRM).
My 2 cents wortz xx
Good luck mate I’m sure the bike will be fine.
I’m hoping to come across the ditch to meet up mate. Thomas
Yep I’ve had a beer, love the forum
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Thanks Beeza, I persevered with a six spring for over 20 years on my ZB33 before fitting a 4 spring, on my race 55 rr run a BNR after initially running a suzuki conversion. The thing that blew me away from the BNR belt kit was how quiet it is, losing all the chain noise (also no dynamo). Now it is a bit different lugging two lardy blokes around the race track, feeding in the clutch with 5k on the tacho and lifting the front wheel for a moment but I've found the BNR to be trouble free while the engines been routinely stripped and needed TLC. I take your point you lose the cush drive and in doing so loose gearing options off the crank. The common 1:2 ration of a belt does gear the beesa's quite tall so not suitable for the drags.
Your daytona sounds interesting. My sidecar was built as a homage to the daytona bikes and I recall seeing a genuine one at Mike Reily's in Oz while I was building a super rocket (since sold *problem*). The main reason I would stick to the 6 would be purely to keep it original, but in practice fitting a modern clutch doesnt preclude that happening one day if someone is so minded *dunno*. They can be made to work fine just are not a fit and forget option like a BNR.
I think the 54 RR will make a great all rounder, in practice any long distance hauls I use the vincent for(planning a week riding around the south Island with my wife late Oct/early Nov - probably over 300km) as it just chews them up effortlessly (famous last words), But the BSA's are much nicer in traffic, shorter trips and for club runs or the pub. I am trying not to restore it other than mechanically, but then I also dont want to fake parts as old, would rather this became a grandfathers axe. Kept a good honest BSA.
Hope we do get to catch up. Am sure I could find you something to ride here.
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Hi Tim, just my opinion, but I don’t like 6 springers, the buckle in some new steels is time consuming to get out, but saying that if the steel plates are PERFECT then go for it. I also think oil in the primary should be there! So apart from my Daytona (an original 6 spring ), I do run all 4 spring clutches, including the 54 RR salt bike I’m waiting to run, now next March.
I did run a belt in my 57 flash quite some time ago, and in ‘my’ opinion the lack of a cush is to ‘me’ evident. The belts used are akin to a timing belt, and so! have minimal or no flex. On my 57 flash the drive gear was an alloy unit (some time ago now), and when I looked at it after 3 years running so , and no serious miles on it, for no real reason the splines were about half the thickness, ( yes 65 fb on the nut), however my thoughts went to the fact of no cush. So from there on in, I run 4 spring (I used to use Lyfords clutches but now SRM).
My 2 cents wortz xx
Good luck mate I’m sure the bike will be fine.
I’m hoping to come across the ditch to meet up mate. Thomas
Yep I’ve had a beer, love the forum
I’ve just fitted a BNR drive to my B31, was thinking of doing the A10 next, about the splines, were these worn down on the crank? or belt drive pulley? (crank would be bad *sad* )
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Hi Tim, just my opinion, but I don’t like 6 springers, the buckle in some new steels is time consuming to get out, but saying that if the steel plates are PERFECT then go for it. I also think oil in the primary should be there! So apart from my Daytona (an original 6 spring ), I do run all 4 spring clutches, including the 54 RR salt bike I’m waiting to run, now next March.
I did run a belt in my 57 flash quite some time ago, and in ‘my’ opinion the lack of a cush is to ‘me’ evident. The belts used are akin to a timing belt, and so! have minimal or no flex. On my 57 flash the drive gear was an alloy unit (some time ago now), and when I looked at it after 3 years running so , and no serious miles on it, for no real reason the splines were about half the thickness, ( yes 65 fb on the nut), however my thoughts went to the fact of no cush. So from there on in, I run 4 spring (I used to use Lyfords clutches but now SRM).
My 2 cents wortz xx
Good luck mate I’m sure the bike will be fine.
I’m hoping to come across the ditch to meet up mate. Thomas
Yep I’ve had a beer, love the forum
I’ve just fitted a BNR drive to my B31, was thinking of doing the A10 next, about the splines, were these worn down on the crank? or belt drive pulley? (crank would be bad *sad* )
crank spline wear not uncommon, Bender suffers from it. I use a special loctite that has held up for my race abuse for many years without any progression, just needs a bit of heat to get it back off and a puller. I did once see a crank where a set of shims took up the slack for each spline. you dont want a cush drive or fixed hub moving relative to the crank. One day it will snap.
I am erring toward a BNR, its a kit, its complete, it works. No messing about with bits that are'nt quite right.
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Hi All,
If I think of it after the weekend (heading off in the AM) I will take a couple of photos of a BNR pulley that came with the clutch kit I was gifted (the owner fitted an electric leg to his Goldie)
The pulley has worn badly on 1/4 (ish) of its circumference in not many miles
Anyhow I asked SRM to fit a cush drive into a new pulley, Its a very neat job
This clutch was going to go into my SR but now it looks like I need an electric leg as well *sad2*
but I have two other BSA projects it would also go into
John
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Hi All,
If I think of it after the weekend (heading off in the AM) I will take a couple of photos of a BNR pulley that came with the clutch kit I was gifted (the owner fitted an electric leg to his Goldie)
The pulley has worn badly on 1/4 (ish) of its circumference in not many miles
Anyhow I asked SRM to fit a cush drive into a new pulley, Its a very neat job
This clutch was going to go into my SR but now it looks like I need an electric leg as well *sad2*
but I have two other BSA projects it would also go into
John
Bobs front pulley's are alloy so would be the sacrificial part if there is preexisting wear in the splines. I would expect that a nice tight cush drive wouldnt wear a crank, but have seen numerous cranks that have worn splines from a cush drive set up. This is an area where its worth making sure the cush centre or front pulley has absolutely no slop before bolting up. As standard its a steel on steel fit and the cranks do wear there. so a real problem. A BNR pulley that starts off loose isnt going to last long.
I do check benders crank every pull down and neither have shown wear but I do typically loctite my pulley so its not going to move. On Bender I typically do dump the clutch fairly brutally so I can light up the back tyre and my crewman feeds in the grip. It brings out my inner hoon *whistle*
If you want to sell that BNR please PM me *yeah*, they are rubbish you dont need it... *grins*
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Hi RR,
It was the outside teeth on the pulley that wore ? Presuming from the power stroke of the Goldie
I have the real RGS and a Goldie replica projects that need the engine and gearbox connecting, so will hang onto the belt kit
for now at least
John
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Hi Tim, just my opinion, but I don’t like 6 springers, the buckle in some new steels is time consuming to get out, but saying that if the steel plates are PERFECT then go for it. I also think oil in the primary should be there! So apart from my Daytona (an original 6 spring ), I do run all 4 spring clutches, including the 54 RR salt bike I’m waiting to run, now next March.
I did run a belt in my 57 flash quite some time ago, and in ‘my’ opinion the lack of a cush is to ‘me’ evident. The belts used are akin to a timing belt, and so! have minimal or no flex. On my 57 flash the drive gear was an alloy unit (some time ago now), and when I looked at it after 3 years running so , and no serious miles on it, for no real reason the splines were about half the thickness, ( yes 65 fb on the nut), however my thoughts went to the fact of no cush. So from there on in, I run 4 spring (I used to use Lyfords clutches but now SRM).
My 2 cents wortz xx
Good luck mate I’m sure the bike will be fine.
I’m hoping to come across the ditch to meet up mate. Thomas
Yep I’ve had a beer, love the forum
I’ve just fitted a BNR drive to my B31, was thinking of doing the A10 next, about the splines, were these worn down on the crank? or belt drive pulley? (crank would be bad *sad* )
crank spline wear not uncommon, Bender suffers from it. I use a special loctite that has held up for my race abuse for many years without any progression, just needs a bit of heat to get it back off and a puller. I did once see a crank where a set of shims took up the slack for each spline. you dont want a cush drive or fixed hub moving relative to the crank. One day it will snap.
I am erring toward a BNR, its a kit, its complete, it works. No messing about with bits that are'nt quite right.
Im still interested in what “beeza” can report on the pulley (or crank) wear.
On my b31 I have had to insert shims in each spline on the crank (bits of tin can actually) to make up for the wear on the crank, it Needed these “shims” both before I fitted the BNR kit, and after.
Its not got goldie type torque so the pulley teeth should last!
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Hi guys, the crank splines on the alloy pulley wore.
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Hi guys, the crank splines on the alloy pulley wore.
Thanks beeza, thats better than the crank wearing eh
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KiWi The narrow stainless steel strips backing windshield wiper blades make good shimstock for worn crank splines.....Used this cheapskate trick with great success, works fine on a standard road bike.
Swarfy.
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KiWi The narrow stainless steel strips backing windshield wiper blades make good shimstock for worn crank splines.....Used this cheapskate trick with great success, works fine on a standard road bike.
Swarfy.
Good idea, thanks swarfy
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Hi All,
A photo of the worn GS belt pulley and a couple of the new SRM modified cush drive pulley
I cannot see the joint between the new pulley and the cam section I sent them
John
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I see the next NZ national BSA rally happens to occur at the end of February in the south Island, so if I can stop myself being too distracted by the A7ss project and rebuilding my a10rr sidecar engine, I will aim to have the road rocket ready for it. Probably 2000km round trip *smile*, something to work towards.
I realised today that the new rr valves run different collet types to the ones that were original so have just ordered a set. But I think I'm close to having the bottom end back together.
Major house renovations havent helped, the builders went broke during the lockdown *doh* , but getting there...slowly
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Finally have some decent mufflers, if potentially a bit restrictive. still awaiting some case fettling to get the cases to match up nicely. Once I can get the cases fitting up nicely I should make some proper progress, intention is to get this up the priority list. Was crook earlier in the year for a while but finally getting my mojo back.
all the major machining and repairs done. mainly a matter of assembly. Clearing out some flotsam and jetsom projects should help me focus. Plan will be to have all three preunit twins going in 2022
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A bit of an update on the cases and perhaps how slowly a penny can drop: when I got this engine I assumed it was all unmolested/ worn out /std. however while all the sizes were in fact std and worn out, the engine didnt come apart nicely which niggled. likewise I was surprised to see a transitional crank which I put down to my lack of clarity when these were actually released (I always assumed they came out in 56/57 as a response to crank breakages in the RR models) ... anyway some of the studs weren't straight and having had all the usual reconditioning done I found the cases didnt really want to align nicely. much time passed. and the dowels in the cases have now been realigned so the crank and cam are turning freely when mock assembled and the cases close nicely. Something I'd not noticed before was a repair done to the engine case that clearly indicates the motor has had a bottom end issue and hence the crank change and hence had been rebuilt other than by the race shop at BSA (who hand built all the early road rockets and dyno'd each one like a goldie), no doubt work done by the US dealer or local shop.
My engineer is finishing off the case alignment work redressing the top and bottom case joins so the barrel doesnt twist the cases. Hope to be back assembling it soon.
photo of the historic case repair *shh*, why didnt that register!
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I wasnt happy with the alloy rods, but did have a set of new map rods (intended for another engine) so bit the bullet and had it rebalanced to 60% for those and now have the bottom end back together. What with the case alignment issue this has fought me, but it is lovely and free turning. So finally starting to make some real progress after many years. Just waiting on some parts like an alloy sump plate and having the gudgeons eased and the bottom end can go back in the bike and the top end assembly can commence.
Something that is still hanging over me is control cables. Having high export bars all the commonly available cables are too short. torn between fitting domestic bars and sticking with the US bars both for originality and as a point of difference to my other bikes. (my ZB33 has the lower domestic bars and the vincent has flats and my track solo clip ons). I've messengered JJ cables to see if they can help. I really need to start from scratch. Am really looking forward to having this going and this year is definitely on course for, hopefully by september for the spring.
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the engine is largely assembled, timing cases to go on and timing and tappets... but is in and turn freely.
Interestingly on the Western cables front while my 54 twins parts list is useless and doesnt end mention the road rocket, I stumbled across the single cylinder parts list 49 to '53 includes the swing arm goldstar and has a western bars supplement covering the taillight extension unique to US models. The western goldie clutch cable is also common to the plunger superflash.
Lots of loose ends, I've vented over muffler issues elsewhere in the forum.
electrics to connect, waiting for a clutch cable, my wifes overseas for 3 weeks so hope to get some quality time in the garage.
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tim - there's some short and long cable part numbers here for the 53 superflash tho doesn't specifically mention the western bars:
https://bsa-info.nz/service-sheets/?f=17I0gDRb1t5swG2uU6PDEvk3PX5rU9J4A (https://bsa-info.nz/service-sheets/?f=17I0gDRb1t5swG2uU6PDEvk3PX5rU9J4A)
HTH
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"...........Something that is still hanging over me is control cables. Having high export bars all the commonly available cables are too short. torn between fitting domestic bars and sticking with the US bars both for originality and as a point of difference to my other bikes. (my ZB33 has the lower domestic bars and the vincent has flats and my track solo clip ons). I've messengered JJ cables to see if they can help. I really need to start from scratch.......
http://www.melbarcables.co.nz/ run by a biker mate of mine, Graham, you can just send him a cable and say you want one the same but 4” longer or whatever. He will re-use fittings if you like.
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tim - there's some short and long cable part numbers here for the 53 superflash tho doesn't specifically mention the western bars:
https://bsa-info.nz/service-sheets/?f=17I0gDRb1t5swG2uU6PDEvk3PX5rU9J4A (https://bsa-info.nz/service-sheets/?f=17I0gDRb1t5swG2uU6PDEvk3PX5rU9J4A)
HTH
Here's the swing arm reference sheets for a 53 goldie with western bars
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I'm making reasonable progress with whats hopefully final assembly. But realized some odds and sods are missing. One in particular is the carb drip tray. was pondering ordering one but instead had a look through roy bacons twin resto book that includes 3 road rocket pics (54/55/57) none of which have a drip tray! whereas all the other swing arm preunit twins have one. Presumably this is because the 10TT float is carried well to the timing side and even the carb feed in rear of the mag so deemed unnecessary. Unless all roys samples have had them removed...
The attached pic makes the paint look much better than it is.
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On Monday I finally got around to a point I could kick the old girl over and she wanted to start on the 2nd priming kick. After a few close but not quite moments she decided it was time to run... the first time in 60 years.
Sounded nice and oil pressure sitting around 70lbs cold.
carb was dripping slowly (the original 10TT9) might need to lap the needle and without an idle screw needed keeping running.
Did manage a restart after a quick carb clean although fault wasnt solved and starting was hit and miss and compression was high. Not easy to kick over (on 9:1 pistons)
The dip switch strap is broken and needs attention but quietly pleased albeit has taken years too long.
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Well done, I remember you buying this and shipping it from the usa to nz years ago cos you liked the fact it was original and an early example (an auction with plenty of other bids?).
I am visiting the UK (poulner/ringwood) at the moment, there is a bloke with a goldie up the road…the only other bsa’s I have seen were new goldies in a showroom.
I have not yet ordered any bsa parts to take back home in the luggage…..but I will *smile*
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Am also a little distracted as off to the UK in late May as well, including six days on the IOM for the TT to watch the sidecar races and some solos. Have a hire booked for a modern to get me around the island. Havent visited IOM for over 30 years! was there when the Norton Rotary JPS bikes won which was very special.
So may not get the BSA vinned before heading off, but it's now higher in the queue. Don't have any specific shopping items on the list.
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well RR i am very pleased it's not overly shiny and back together after all those years *good3*
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https://www.youtube.com/shorts/UtXBiF4s_4E (https://www.youtube.com/shorts/UtXBiF4s_4E)
A newly made exhaust system has just been sent to Gisborne for chroming today, the existing headers are original but have moths and the silencers fitted had the brackets in the wrong places so were modified and have baffles ...
So a nice new set of bespoke copies will fit it well and breath a bit better. May keep the restrictive silencers presently fitted for vinning and 6 monthly warrants of fitness if the new pipes are a bit loud.
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nice one Tim! - next: I WANNA SEE A ROAD TEST VID!!!
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Am also a little distracted as off to the UK in late May as well, including six days on the IOM for the TT to watch the sidecar races and some solos. Have a hire booked for a modern to get me around the island. Havent visited IOM for over 30 years! was there when the Norton Rotary JPS bikes won which was very special.
So may not get the BSA vinned before heading off, but it's now higher in the queue. Don't have any specific shopping items on the list.
Off topic but here is a pic I took a couple of days ago at the Fish Inn Ringwood…..a “bike night”
Plus another, of an A10, maybe of a forum member?
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a huge day yesterday, the bike was booked in for certification for a new vin tag and registration! I’m pleased to say that after six years(i bought this project several months before my wife died), the road rocket is registered and has its warrent of fitness, so back on the road (last registered in 1963) and 70 years after its manufacture 🥳 still some fettling and shake down, but lovely to see it come back to life
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Nicely done *yeah*
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a huge day yesterday, the bike was booked in for certification for a new vin tag and registration! I’m pleased to say that after six years(i bought this project several months before my wife died), the road rocket is registered and has its warrent of fitness, so back on the road (last registered in 1963) and 70 years after its manufacture 🥳 still some fettling and shake down, but lovely to see it come back to life
So it’s going to the Waimate National rally in March? *smile* (unfortunately, I cannot go)
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Well done mate. After all that's happened, it's good to hear.
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yes am planning to ride it from auckland to Waimate in mid march, the route down planned is around 1700km, so a round trip around 3000km. so far have interest from two super rockets, two oif thunderbolts and a goldie in riding with my road rocket over two weeks, nothing ventured nothing gained! will be an adventure 😁